On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Harsh <singhal...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Ista, Spencer and Greg, <snip> > The information being collected is purely out of personal interest and I > have mentioned this earlier.
No, I don't think you did actually. This is the key thing we wanted to know up-front, and it's a shame that it took the better part of the day before we finally understand why you are conducting the survey. There is no commercial interest involved. > > Is it possible that I am interested in this sort of information to better > understand R's usage patterns ? In doing so, the survey I am conducting > would seem an appropriate way for my requirements. > > And how does belittling someone on a mailing list help ? > > If anyone wants the kind of information I am collecting, are there > suggestions of better ways of finding it besides the method that I have > adopted ? Sure I could scrape the data of LinkedIn pages, or find other ways > of doing it, but I found this suitable. > > > > On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 1:27 AM, Spencer Graves > <spencer.gra...@structuremonitoring.com> wrote: >> >> Most surveys done in the US today are done during election season, to >> determine how to package candidates to attract votes. Officials elected >> under such circumstances spend half their time in office servicing the >> bribes that they accepted to pay for the surveys and the resulting >> advertising (and the other half soliciting more bribes er contributions for >> their next campaign). The best reference on this I know is Thomas Ferguson >> (1995) Golden Rule (U. Chicago Pr.). It's by now somewhat old but is still >> cited by leading researchers. >> >> >> People have a right to be cautious of surveys, because too rarely >> today are surveys used for legitimate scientific purposes. Most often, they >> are used to defraud the public into doing things that are contrary to their >> best interests. >> >> >> Spencer Graves >> >> >> On 3/4/2011 11:37 AM, Ista Zahn wrote: >>> >>> Now hold on a second Harsh! I was fairly neutral up to this point, but >>> this response is totally uncalled for. The problem is that despite >>> repeated requests you never clarified the purpose of your research! >>> That is all you were asked to do, but rather than responding to this >>> inquirly in a straightforward and honest manner you kept dodging the >>> question. The most charitable explanation is that you just don't >>> understand what information you were being asked to provide, which is >>> frustrating but understandable; your last response on the other hand >>> is completly out of line. Research participants have a right to know >>> the purpose for which their data is being collected, and as a >>> researcher you have a responsibility to tell them. >>> >>> Rex, thank you for generating this discussion. When I first say >>> Harsh's original email I was just getting ready to fill out the >>> survey. When I saw your response I delayed. Boy am I glad I did! >>> >>> Best, >>> Ista >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Harsh<singhal...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Rex, >>>> You're just paranoid and I'm in no way answerable to you. Your constant >>>> name >>>> calling presupposes your own naivete. >>>> >>>> The survey has a disclaimer and those who wish to respond can do so at >>>> their >>>> own discretion. >>>> >>>> Judging by the nature (and number) of respondents, there seem to be a >>>> lot of >>>> highly qualified people who have no qualms about sharing information >>>> regarding their R usage patterns. >>>> >>>> You can believe what you want and can continue to spin your imaginative >>>> tales of "industrial espionage" while assuming a position of apparent >>>> authority on survey design, Oscar gowns and data security AND my >>>> apparent >>>> ulterior and "outrageous" motives. >>>> >>>> You also seem to be an ignorant and misinformed person. Google forms, >>>> using >>>> which the survey was created DOES NOT log IP addresses of the >>>> respondents. >>>> >>>> And exactly which question in the survey would contribute to endangering >>>> the >>>> professional or personal safety and security of people responding to the >>>> survey. The information sought is freely available on LinkedIn. I merely >>>> want to get more descriptive information directly from R users. >>>> >>>> If you haven't looked at the Survey questions, then refrain from making >>>> misconstrued remarks. >>>> >>>> I apologize to the other users of this list for prolonging this >>>> frivolous >>>> debate here. This will be my last response on the list regarding this >>>> topic. >>>> >>>> >>>> If anyone has an issue pertaining to the Survey, its outcome and my >>>> motives, >>>> they can get in touch with me independently and off the list. All forms >>>> of >>>> constructive comments are also welcome. >>>> >>>> For those interested in sharing their R usage information please visit >>>> goo.gl/jw1ig >>>> >>>> - H >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 04-Mar-2011 10:34 PM,<rex.dw...@syngenta.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> You still don't say what organization you are associated with. Your >>>>> domain >>>> >>>> name and e-mail address give no hint. How do we know that "Harsh >>>> Singhal" is >>>> even a real person? An e-mail address at a university (for example) >>>> would go >>>> a long way to establish that. Gmail doesn't cut it for me. >>>>> >>>>> The preponderance of evidence is that you're just a naïve person who >>>>> would >>>> >>>> give your own information to anyone who asked. On the other hand, it's >>>> possible that you are conducting industrial espionage by recording IP >>>> addresses and associating "use cases" with companies. In my opinion, the >>>> onus is on you to show your bona fides, and you haven't done it. >>>>> >>>>> That's all I have to say... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Harsh [mailto:singhal...@gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 4:19 AM >>>>> To: bill.venab...@csiro.au >>>>> Cc: Dwyer Rex USRE; r-help@r-project.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [R] R usage survey >>>>> >>>>> The R usage survey goo.gl/jw1ig<http://goo.gl/jw1ig> has been updated >>>>> with >>>> >>>> the following changes: >>>>> >>>>> Addition of - >>>>> Disclaimer : >>>>> This data will not be used for any commercial purposes >>>>> Do not include any personally identifiable information >>>>> Contact: Harsh Singhal (singhalblr AT gmail DOT com) for any queries >>>>> >>>>> Removal of - >>>>> Name field >>>>> >>>>> My primary purpose in conducting this survey is - >>>>> - Find multiple use cases for various R packages >>>>> - Understand the nature of work when R is being used in Academia / >>>> >>>> Commercial settings >>>>> >>>>> - The kind of technologies that are being used in conjunction with R >>>> >>>> (popularity of usage of Python with R, and what purpose does using >>>> Python >>>> solve) >>>>> >>>>> The outcome of this analysis will be published on my blog (in the >>>>> process >>>> >>>> of being created). >>>>> >>>>> There is absolutely no commercial purpose behind collecting this >>>> >>>> information and as earlier stated, this information will not be shared >>>> with >>>> personally identifiable information. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you once again Mr. Dwyer and Mr. Venables for raising very import >>>> >>>> questions. >>>>> >>>>> I thank the R users who have already filled in the survey goo.gl/jw1ig< >>>> >>>> http://goo.gl/jw1ig> and request more to do so. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Harsh Singhal >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 7:41 AM,<bill.venab...@csiro.au> wrote: >>>>> No. That's not answering the question. ALL surveys are for collecting >>>> >>>> information. >>>>> >>>>> The substantive issue is what purpose do you have in seeking this >>>> >>>> information in the first place and what are you going to do with it when >>>> you >>>> get it? >>>>> >>>>> Do you have some commercial purpose in mind? If so, what is it? >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: r-help-boun...@r-project.org<mailto:r-help-boun...@r-project.org> >>>> >>>> >>>> [mailto:r-help-boun...@r-project.org<mailto:r-help-boun...@r-project.org>] >>>> On Behalf Of Harsh >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, 4 March 2011 1:13 AM >>>>> To: rex.dw...@syngenta.com<mailto:rex.dw...@syngenta.com> >>>>> Cc: r-help@r-project.org<mailto:r-help@r-project.org> >>>>> Subject: Re: [R] R usage survey >>>>> >>>>> Hi Rex and useRs, >>>>> >>>>> The purpose of the survey has been mentioned on the survey link >>>> >>>> goo.gl/jw1ig<http://goo.gl/jw1ig> >>>>> >>>>> but I will also reproduce it here. >>>>> - Geographical distribution of R users >>>>> - Application areas where R is being used >>>>> - Supporting technology being used along with R >>>>> - Academic background distribution of R users >>>>> >>>>> The potential personally identifiable information such as name and >>>> >>>> employer >>>>> >>>>> name are optional fields. Actually all the fields in the survey are >>>>> optional. >>>>> >>>>> Some of the analysis output(s) could be along the lines of :- >>>>> - Usage statistics of various R packages >>>>> - Distribution of R users across countries/cities >>>>> - Mapping various applications to packages >>>>> - Text Mining of the responses to create informative word clouds >>>>> >>>>> Personally, I am excited about the kind of data I will receive through >>>> >>>> this >>>>> >>>>> survey and the various insights that could be derived. As already >>>> >>>> mentioned, >>>>> >>>>> the results will be shared with the community. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you Rex for raising an important point. It is indeed necessary >>>>> for >>>> >>>> me >>>>> >>>>> to personally assure the user community that the results will be shared >>>>> in >>>> >>>> a >>>>> >>>>> manner that will not contain any personally identifiable information. >>>>> >>>>> Those who wish to gain access to the raw data will be provided with all >>>> >>>> the >>>>> >>>>> fields but not the name and employer name fields. >>>>> >>>>> Just out of curiosity : It is possible to get name, employer name, >>>> >>>> location, >>>>> >>>>> usage information and academic background details when searching for R >>>> >>>> users >>>>> >>>>> on LinkedIn and the many R related groups there. >>>>> Does this also provide potential opportunities for misuse and >>>>> "outrageous" >>>>> analyses, since almost anyone can get onto LinkedIn and access user >>>> >>>> profiles >>>>> >>>>> ? >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your interest and support. >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Harsh >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 8:02 PM,<rex.dw...@syngenta.com<mailto: >>>> >>>> rex.dw...@syngenta.com>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Harsh, "Suitably analyzed" for whose purposes? One man's "suitable" is >>>>>> another's "outrageous". That's why people want to see the gowns at the >>>>>> Oscars. Under what auspices are you conducting this survey? What do >>>>>> you >>>>>> intend to do with it? You don't give any assurance that the results >>>>>> you >>>>>> post won't have personally identifiable information. I don't get the >>>>>> impression that you know much about survey design. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: >>>>>> r-help-boun...@r-project.org<mailto:r-help-boun...@r-project.org> >>>> >>>> >>>> [mailto:r-help-boun...@r-project.org<mailto:r-help-boun...@r-project.org>] >>>>>> >>>>>> On Behalf Of Harsh >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 5:53 AM >>>>>> To: r-help@r-project.org<mailto:r-help@r-project.org> >>>>>> Subject: [R] R usage survey >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi R users, >>>>>> I request members of the R community to consider filling a short >>>>>> survey >>>>>> regarding the use of R. >>>>>> The survey can be found at http://goo.gl/jw1ig >>>>>> >>>>>> Please accept my apologies for posting here for a non-technical >>>>>> reason. >>>>>> >>>>>> The data collected will be suitably analyzed and I'll post a link to >>>>>> the >>>>>> results in the coming weeks. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you all for your interest and for sharing your R usage >>>>>> information. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Harsh Singhal >>>>>> >>>>>> [[alternative HTML version deleted]] >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>> R-help@r-project.org<mailto:R-help@r-project.org> mailing list >>>>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >>>>>> PLEASE do read the posting guide >>>>>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >>>>>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> message may contain confidential information. If you are not the >>>> >>>> designated >>>>>> >>>>>> recipient, please notify the sender immediately, and delete the >>>>>> original >>>> >>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>> any copies. Any use of the message by you is prohibited. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> [[alternative HTML version deleted]] >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> R-help@r-project.org<mailto:R-help@r-project.org> mailing list >>>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >>>>> PLEASE do read the posting guide >>>> >>>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >>>>> >>>>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> message may contain confidential information. If you are not the >>>> >>>> designated recipient, please notify the sender immediately, and delete >>>> the >>>> original and any copies. Any use of the message by you is prohibited. >>>> >>>> [[alternative HTML version deleted]] >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> R-help@r-project.org mailing list >>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >>>> PLEASE do read the posting guide >>>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >>>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >>>> > > -- Ista Zahn Graduate student University of Rochester Department of Clinical and Social Psychology http://yourpsyche.org ______________________________________________ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
