> "Leslie Bester [EMAIL PROTECTED]" wrote:
>
> I'm quite surprised that after joining the list about... 1 hour ago? That I
> raised the (over-used) Signal to noise ratio.
Doesn't that tell you anything? Doesn't that tell you that most people are
asking real questions that people on the list don't mind answering, and that
your question was rather different?
I don't mind clueless newbies. I really don't. But when someone is repeatedly
pointed to an answer, and then refuses to even read it, it gets people mad.
> For anyone who despises the seemingly inevitable flame wars that occur on
> technical mailing lists, I apologize for being what seems to be a catalyst.
Translation: "For anyone who despises the seemingly inevitable flame wars that
occur on technical mailing lists, I thought I'd start ANOTHER one."
> I still await the days when one can post a legitimate question to a list,
> without receiving a barrage of out of context messages with personal opinions,
> and RTFM a**hole, especially when they send them to the list. Perhaps this
> is why some lists are moderated.
Translation: "I still await the days when I can post a frequently asked question
to a list, have it politely answered for me, then ignore the answer, ask again,
then have it answered again (not so politely), then insult the people who
answered me, then start two flame wars, throw a hissie-fit, and have the people
on the list come back for more."
> Perhaps the people who have taken it upon themselves to respond to me as if I
> were some belligerent idiot should try to realize that everyone is not as
> smart as they are, or experienced as they are.
You didn't have to be experienced, or extraordinarily smart, to find the answer
to your problem, all you had to do is READ the man pages that come with qmail,
and then read the URL you were given.
> Frankly, coming from a very basic sendmail background, the url that points to
> the FAQ would make very little sense to anyone reading it, especially when
> they are not familiar with a product they've just downloaded.
That is because you decided not even to glance at the VERY simple,
straightforward man pages that came with qmail, especially 'man dot-qmail'.
I usually have a real problem understanding man pages. They can be quite
confusing at times, but I find qmail man pages to be, by contrast, almost
beautiful in their simplicity. I can tell you never even cracked them open
by reading the questions you asked after someone politely answered your
first question. If the answers that any of the busy people on this list
are not to your satisfaction, then remember what you paid for them.
> If it wasn't for the apparent O'Riely(sp) book in the works (or is it done?),
> I would cease to use the product based on the TONE of the support I've
> received so far..
Please do exactly that, I beg you. I would be happy to walk you through
the process of unsubbing from the list. We haven't had an ungratful newbie
flame the list in a few months, and frankly I like it that way - I'd rather
see you leave than read another flame war every time you ask another
question and ignore the answer.
> It seems like the list (at least this early in the morning)
> is stocked by a bunch of know-it-all teenagers with a severe lack of
> etiquette.
No, it's stocked with some frighteningly brilliant people (of which I'm not
one), who get really frustrated by donating their time, and contributing to
their Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, to answer questions only to find out the person
asking won't even read the BASICS of the material that comes with the package.
The "dot-qmail" manpage is so basic, and so _essential_ to how qmail works
(especially when you have multiple users, which you seem to have), that
there's simply no excuse for not having read it.
As for etiquette, the only one lacking etiquette is you. You come to a list
expecting the people on it to reprint man pages in the list, and when you
don't get your way, you throw a temper-tantrum and flame the people trying
to direct you to the answer. Is this considered etiquette where you come
from?
> So to end, I thought the list was a forum for asking questions and getting
> answers.. not getting slammed.
You asked a question, you were pointed to very straightforward set of steps.
Had you bothered to follow them (you didn't even have to completely understand
them!!), you would have accomplished your task. But instead, you didn't even
try.
Had you even BLINDLY followed the steps laid out in the FAQ that you were
given, without understanding them, you would have seen that the mail you
wanted to save was indeed being saved, although perhaps not with your
preferred delivery mechanism. Then you would have realized that all you
had to do is change the ~alias/.qmail-log file to send the mails to a
./Maildir/, or whatever.
Yes, the FAQ page is terse - I prefer it that way. I don't like reading
through haystacks of duplicated information to find the one needle I'm
looking for, okay?
To quote Logan's Run, "Simple, Logical, Perfect."
Eric
