On 2020-08-07 at 04:00:34 +1000,
Regarding "Re: How explain why Python is easier/nicer than Lisp which has a
simpler grammar/syntax?,"
Chris Angelico <ros...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 2:36 AM Christian Seberino <cseber...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Thursday, August 6, 2020 at 10:52:00 AM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > > The point of learning a
> > > language isn't that you can take a piece of pre-existing code and
> > > figure out what it'll do, step by step; the point is to be able to
> > > encode your intentions in that language, and to read the code and
> > > understand the other programmer's intentions.
> >
> > Thanks for sharing your thoughts. How do you define "expressiveness"?
> > Also, why is Python syntax able to more clearly communicate intentions?
> > Both Python and Lisp have comments so that isn't it.
> >
>
> Expressiveness is about how well you can translate your ideas into
> code, and how well someone else can interpret your ideas by reading
> your code. It's hard to quantify, but it's in a way the most important
> thing about any language.
I would say that expressiveness is how *directly* you can translate your
ideas into code, and how *directly* some one else can see your original
idea by reading your code.
So when I say something like "create a new list in which each value is
double the value in the current list," that translates to relatively
idiomatic Python like so:
new_list = []
for value in current_list:
new_list.append(2 * value) # or maybe value + value; YMMV
Or even:
[ 2 * value for value in current_list ]
In Lisp, it might look like this:
(mapcar #'(lambda (value) (* 2 value)) current_list)
Unless you're familiar with Lisp (or Lisp-like languages), and
comfortable with high order functions (which many/most beginners aren't,
although most Lispers are), it's a lot harder to see the idea in the
code.
Having written my share of both Python and Lisp, I appreciate the
benefits of Lisp's syntax, but I also know that it still takes me a
little longer to read and understand a big block of straightforward Lisp
vs. a big block of straightforward Python. (Between dunders,
properties, and other bits of magic that takes place far away from its
invocation, Python code and the logic behind it can be *very* confusing
to unravel. Lisp macros present the same problem.)
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