On 18/07/20 11:48 PM, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 at 05:39, dn via Python-list <python-list@python.org> wrote:
On 18/07/20 3:29 PM, boB Stepp wrote:
On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 9:48 PM dn via Python-list
<python-list@python.org> wrote:
On 18/07/20 1:53 PM, Castillo, Herbert S wrote:
I downloaded python not to long ago, and today when I opened Python on Windows
it gave me a modify setup prompt. I have tried to click on modify , repair and
even uninstalled and installed it back, but when I try to open Python up again,
I keep on getting the same modify setup prompt. I am not sure of what to do?
Thank you in advance.
Just for grins I just now glanced at the link dn provided. Yes, this
is a very thorough, very accurate, very *technical* help resource.
But if I were a person who had never seen a shell, cmd.exe or
Powershell window, never programmed before, had no clue about how to
truly use my OS, etc., I don't think I would understand a bit of this
"help" document, and, at best, would find it very intimidating. If
this community does wish to cater to those who are totally new to the
world of programming and learning how to really use their PC at any
depth, then I think a different approach or set of documents is
needed. And an easier way for those playing with the idea of learning
programming and Python to connect with such documentation.
[snip]
There is also THE Python Tutorial - the opening action is two?three
pages 'in'. Is that suitably less-technical and more usable to a 'beginner'?
https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/index.html
I would say that the official tutorial is not targeted at the total
novice. I think it used to be described as the tutorial for people
with experience of programming in other languages but I might be
misremembering.
The main python.org page links to a "beginners guide" well actually
there are two beginners guides...
https://www.python.org/
...
Certainly I don't see it if I go straight to the download pages:
https://www.python.org/downloads/
https://www.python.org/downloads/windows/
I think if I was new to programming or installing software in general
I would find all of this quite bewildering.
My experience of teaching total novice programmers is that you really
can't shirk the fundamental question: how should I install this thing
and start using it *before* I have any idea what I'm doing? Novices
don't need to be told that there are 100 ways to do it: they need to
be told exactly how to do it in a way that will work for them.
...
+1, well written!
For grins (as boB would say) I scanned Oracle's intro pages to Java
programming (JDK), and they have a logical progression from installation
instructions to "proving" the installation with the ubiquitous
Hello-World first-program.
Whereas the MySQL web site requires one to select the appropriate
download and then remember (!) to keep reading. Whereupon the manual
offers advice about testing the server, etc.
Whereas those are decades old and well-established, in case of
comparison the 'younger' MongoDB's documentation was more complicated.
The installation of the server was not followed by a link to information
about running the client, to be able to assure the system and understand
the most basic (debugging?) linkage.
None of these are suited to the 'smart phone' world, where software is
selected from an 'app store' and once installed, 'it just works'. Is
that where these neophyte users' troubles start - a disconnect between
such expectations and the Python reality?
(it's all very alien to my Linux world/memories of MS-Win .msi files
with a check-box at the end which invited a start-up or display of
suitable help files)
Yes, the observation that we have folk who are quite probably
downloading a command-line program(me) for the first time in their
lives, but is that a valid excuse?
What I've run out of time to compare-and-contrast is the advantage of
pointing users at a Python-environment distribution, eg Anaconda. If
'we' are less interested in caring for beginners and their basic needs,
should we point them at others who are?
Observations (further to/underlining @Oscar's points):
- the requirements of a beginner installing for the first time (and
maybe his/her first programming language) are totally different to
someone wanting to install a new version of Python or on a new machine.
(ie done-it-all-before/want it to be quick-and-easy/don't bother me with
loads of docs)
- most docs seem to try to be 'all things to all people', whereas the
differences between platforms inevitably make the writing complicated
and the reading difficult to follow. Thus, consider separating entries
by OpSys and/or installation method.
- a reference manual is not 'the place' for beginners, who require a
more tutorial/hand-holding approach
- a beginners' installation tutorial should include a first program(me)
and thus run through the command-line/editor/execute/REPL etc
philosophies. This may be opening yet another 'door', given the range of
editors (I don't think that Idle is part of the Python download for all
OpSys, any more)...
--
Regards =dn
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