On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 03:14 pm, Michael Torrie wrote: > On 11/17/2016 08:41 PM, jf...@ms4.hinet.net wrote: >> The fact that most novices will stumble on Python variable many times >> until it becomes his "second nature" proves it's different from the >> human language:-) > > The fact is that most novices don't stumble when dealing with Python > variables. The nature of name binding vs memory boxes does trip up > people occasionally, but most grasp it quickly and move on. > > Since you are unwilling to prove your assertion or even provide a single > example (you did once speak of couches and chairs but your reference > made little sense), we can make no further progress.
I think you're being harsh on J Fong. And for what it is worth, I think that I (slightly) agree with him: in my experience, many people have difficulty understanding object model at first, especially if they've come from a background of named memory boxes. You should spend more time around beginners -- it is quite common for them to be confused by name binding and all its consequences. I don't know if it is "most novices", but I'm confident that it is quite common. Coincidentally, on the Python tutor list, there was an example of this earlier yesterday: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2016-November/110014.html This is not just Python, of course, it includes most modern scripting languages and some non-scripting languages. E.g. Lua, Javascript, Ruby and Java (objects and boxed values, but not machine values). It's not that Python is doing something weird compared to other languages. Python's name binding semantics are very common. They also have a lot in common with pointer semantics in C-like and Algol-like languages: you have to reason through a level of indirection to understand variables. And pointer semantics are notoriously difficult. So I don't think it should be surprising that some people find it hard to understand, at least at the beginning. -- Steve “Cheer up,” they said, “things could be worse.” So I cheered up, and sure enough, things got worse. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
