On Sunday, February 28, 2016 at 6:08:44 PM UTC+5:30, BartC wrote: > On 28/02/2016 06:34, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > > GUI elements are by definition graphical in nature, and like other graphical > > elements, manipulation by hand is superior to command-based manipulation. > > Graphical interfaces for manipulating graphics have won the UI war so > > effectively that some people have forgotten there ever was a war. Can you > > imagine using Photoshop without drag and drop? > > > > And yet programming those graphical interfaces is an exception. There, with > > very few exceptions, we still *require* a command interface. Not just a > > command interface, but an *off-line* command interface, where you batch up > > all your commands then run them at once, as if we were Neanderthals living > > in a cave. > > You've got that back to front. > > It's the GUI users who are the Neanderthals, having to effectively point > at things with sticks. Or have to physically move that rock themselves > (ie. drag a file to a wastebasket).
Creature A: Plays with a toy -- usually called 'child' Creature B: Makes toys, possibly designs new ones... Can be child Are these same? Steven is talking of GUI *programmers* You are talking of GUI *users* > > More advanced uses have the power of language, with all its > sophistications (ie. commands lines and scripting). And they don't need > to move that rock, they can tell someone else to do it! But with far > more control: all rocks of a certain size and colour, and at sunrise > tomorrow. You seem to have a rather limited view of language. Math is a language Music is a language -- and sophisticated music analysis can slot music according to genre etc So also GUIs > > Some things are just more easily described with a script or formula or > algorithm which is then 'rendered' to produce the result. Not quite > right? Change one parameter to re-render to instantly produce a new > version, that would have taken minutes or hours to do manually. > > > An effective and modern GUI builder UI should be programmable without > > requiring programming. About thirty years ago Apple came up with the ideal > > mix of graphical and programmatic development for its Hypercard product. > > You built applications by dragging and dropping widgets on the screen, or > > by copying and pasting them from a library of pre-made widgets. > > You have to give someone some shopping to do. What's quicker, jotting > down a list of milk, bread, eggs and so on, or invoking some GUI program > where you have to first look for each category, then have to choose the > exact subcategory, size, quantity... Dunno what that has to do with GUI It seems to be to do with 'coding-up' The string "milk" codes up milk more efficiently than category navigation and manipulation That programmers are 50 years behind laypersons in terms of computer USAGE: http://blog.languager.org/2013/09/poorest-computer-users-are-programmers.html -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
