On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:07 PM, Timothy Madden <terminato...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On 06.04.2013 03:35, Chris Angelico wrote: >> >> On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 11:22 AM, <terminato...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> On Saturday, April 6, 2013 1:42:15 AM UTC+3, Ian wrote: >>> [...] >>>> >>>> The "def" line has four spaces. The "for" line then has a hard tab. >>>> This is ambiguous. If the hard tab is assumed to have a width of four >>>> spaces, then they are at the same indentation level. If it is assumed >>>> to have a width of eight spaces, then they are not. >>> >>> [...] >>> >>> The correct tab stop positions have always been at 8 character columns >>> apart. >>> The "ambiguity" was introduced by editors that do not follow the default >>> value set in hardware like printers or used by consoles and terminal >>> emulators. >>> >>> And now python forces me out of using any tab characters at all. I believe >>> I should still have a choice, python should at lest give an option to set >>> tab size, if the default of 8 is ambiguous now. >> >> >> If you're indenting four spaces per level, then indent four spaces per >> level. The code you posted would work perfectly if the indentation is >> four spaces, then eight spaces, then twelve spaces. The problem is >> that you have a stupid editor that's enforcing tabs instead of certain >> multiples of spaces - get one that'll keep them all as spaces and you >> won't have a problem. > > > My editor is not the problem, of course, this is about what I think is right. > I think I should be given the option to use tabs as I always have, and at > least to use them with the default tab size, as python 2 used to. > > >> Or use actual tabs, and set the displayed tab width to whatever you >> feel like. That works, too. Neither option causes any problems with >> any sane tools. > > > Well this is the problem, the tab size is not "whatever I like", tab stops > are 8 character columns apart (default). > > Changing the tab size from this default is what makes the code incompatible, > not the tabs themselves. So the solution is simple: do not change tab size > from the default. > > People say I can use tabs all the way, just set them to the indent I want. > > Well, I always had my indent independent of the tab size. Which is the way it > should be, after all, since one can indent with or without tabs, so indent > should not be tied to them. > > But now I can not; python no longer lets me do that. > > Tab size should be 8, so now python 3 says: either indent at 8 with tabs, > either drop tabs and indent with spaces (just the same as if tabs are not > allowed). > > But that is so wrong. I can indent at 4 (or any value), and still use tabs, > as long as the interpreter knows tab stops are 8 columns apart. There is no > "ambiguity" and no way to change the meaning of the code. > > So as a comparison we have: > > - the good old rules > - python has use the default tab stops of 8 columns > - indent is independent of tab stops > > - the new rules > - python is independent of the tab stops > - indent is now tied to the tab stop, so users have to : > - use non-default tab size (8 is too much), or > - drop tabs altogether > > The new rules may look flexible at first sight, but the net effect they have > is they push me to use non-default tab size (which is not good), or drop the > tabs, which I could have used before python 3 just fine. > > > Thank you, > Timothy Madden
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