On Nov 28, 5:24 pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:32:59 -0700, Ian Kelly wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> > <steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info> wrote:
> [...]
> >>> Lambdas and functions are the same thing in my language, so no need
> >>> for a special keyword.
>
> >> That does not follow. Lambdas and def functions are the same thing in
> >> Python, but Python requires a special keyword.
>
> > I think the implication is that Unit has only one syntax for creating
> > functions, which is lambda-style. In any case, why does Python require
> > a special keyword? def is only used in a statement context, and lambda
> > is only used in an expression context. Why not use the same keyword for
> > both?
>
> Because the syntax is completely different. One is a statement, and
> stands alone, the other is an expression. Even putting aside the fact
> that lambda's body is an expression, and a def's body is a block, def
> also requires a name. Using the same keyword for both would require
> special case reasoning: sometimes def is followed by a name, sometimes
> without a name. That's ugly.
>
> def name(args): block # okay
>
> funcs = [def args: expr, # okay so far
> def name(args): expr, # not okay
> def: expr, # okay
> ]
>
> def: expr # also okay
>
> def: expr
> expr # but not okay
>
> x = def x: expr # okay
> x = def x(x): expr # not okay
>
> Using the same keyword for named and unnamed functions is, in my opinion,
> one of those foolish consistencies we are warned about. When deciding on
> syntax, the difference between anonymous and named functions are more
> significant than their similarities.
A good example I have run into is recursion. When a local function
calls itself, the name of the function may not be part of scope (non-
local). Languages that support tail-end recursion optimization can't
optimize. In order to support this, a function in Unit will have
access to its own name and type. In other words, special scoping rules
are in place in Unit to allow treating a function as an expression.
>
> > I think the answer is historical: def came first, and when
> > anonymous functions were added it didn't make sense to use the keyword
> > "def" for them, because "def" implies a name being defined.
>
> That reasoning still applies even if they were added simultaneously.
>
> Lambda is pretty old: it certainly exists in Python 1.5 and almost
> certainly in 1.4. While it doesn't exist as a keyword in Python 0.9.1,
> there is a module called "lambda" with a function "lambda" that uses more
> or less the same syntax. Instead of lambda x: x+1, you would instead
> write lambda("x", "x+1"). So the idea of including anonymous functions
> was around in Python circles before the syntax was locked in.
I find that interesting. I also find it interesting that the common
functional methods (all, any, map, filter) are basically built into
Python core language. That is unusual for most imperative programming
languages early-on.
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