>Wow! I, I, I, I... is there a sentence that doesn't talk about your
self interests?
It is clear you have been taking lessons from RR; the word I does not
convey self interest, in fact, it is the best word suited to speaking of
oppinions (which is all that these are), in the first person. Lets move
on, shall we?
>You haven't downloaded any inaccessible program made with Tkinter, you
didn't have any problems, You can create an accessible program if you
can't find
>an accessible one, you care only to please the other for working with
you and so on.
No. I said, I can find a program that is accessible, if I find one that
isn't. Totally different from making one, and any user at all has said
power. Granted, there are conditions where this doesn't work, but my
idea of -fixing- TKInter would solve a lot of problems.
>Don't you care that most programmers don't know about accessibility
and they just don't create accessible programs not because they don't
want, but because
>they don't know about this thing?
Of course I do. Non accessibility hurts you, as much as me, as much as
anyone else when I have to take time away to try to make a program
accessible. But, here is the thing; I have suggested work on TKInter to
make such programs accessible, and I am perfectly willing to
participate, as much as time allows, in such work. You are trying to
make me come across as some evil cruel person because I don't submit to
"hit them over the head with the hammer that is the ADA and force
compliance," but rather I want to work with someone. At the end of the
day, you lose, I win in general. People have made comments about the
fact that all you did was parrot the evilness of TKInter to many
threads, and now you've made comments on laws in existance that will
help us. If you will note, no one even blinked at said laws. Now, the
idea of fixing the problem (and not just switching libraries out of the
STDLib, because as Ixokai already pointed out in another post, that
won't happen), will get us much farther; whether or not Python, or
anything else uses TKInter, it will be accessible, with some work put
into talking to the community and I'll probably jump in the trenches
myself and hammer out some code.
>Retorical question... It is obviously that you don't care.
Nope. I, as a blind person obviously don't care. Which is why I've spent
so much time trying to push the idea of fixing TKInter. what a horrible
horrible person I am.
>Ok, you don't care. There are very many like you. But do you think
that this is the right atitude? To not care about the >others at all but
only about your selfish interests because the alternative is a loss of
time?
A loss of time? Where. I am not a proponent of forcing a lib into the
STDLib while said library currently has problems (RR's segfaults, I'm
"looking" at you). I know and accept the fact that Python is not going
to become unstable with a library, in the hopes that some day people
will start using wx since it's just there and voila, everything will be
peaches and cream for us screen-reader using folks.
>Can't you see that this isn't normal? Can't you see that some people
don't even believe you that you are blind but you >still promote the
non-accessible programs?
RR's non-belief of me being blind or otherwise was to help his own
argument, not because I'm promoting anything.
>But there could be an explanation for this too. You might look great
in your gang if the other blind people you know are >not able to use
some programs but you are able to create your own which are accessible.
You will appear really special.
Yep. I'm talking about fixing a library to be more accessible so I can
look great in my "gang" of sighted people I try so hard to blend in
with, by daring to use such words as "watch."
You mentioned the millions of people that I may help by quoting
accessibility laws at, and here I say, you over estimate your self
importance. If I went into my school and started yelling about the ADA,
I would possibly get somewhere, but they would end up doing the bear
minimum in order to comply with such laws. As a result, I don't really
get what I want, and someone walks away from the encounter with the idea
that all the blind people are the same, which may be a problem for
someone who wishes to get employed.
Now, on the other hand, if I were to walk into somewhere, say "hey, this
is really unaccessible, and this is how we can fix it," from my
experience, 9 times out of ten it will get fixed. That other 10% is
where the ADA and other such laws come in. Through this encounter,
someone walks away with a lot more respect for me, and if something
should come up later, I can generally go talk to them.
You have this "pity me," "I don't want to be a part of the sighted
community," attitude, which will get you nowhere. If you limit yourself
(by not doing such things as watching tv, or using phones with
touchpads), that is -your- own fault, and no one elses. I say this
because I used to be the same way, and I can garentee, if you give it
time and start being a lot different with people, rather than just
promoting your ADA laws and hiding behind your wall you've put up to
save you from having to deal with things, you will be much happier. My
preaching done with, I'd like to urge everyone to put this in a bit of
perspective; essentially, what I don't want is someone walking away with
Octavian's attitude as a stariotype for us all.
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