Forgive me for the listening 'troll perspective', but is there any simple solution to intertwining proprietary and open source mentalities? Common ground seems to be the hardware offerings. So why does it seem that the summit has lost it's common ground, which is the hardware we operate on? Electricians know more about multiple applications of energy affecting different sources than most programmers here with there allocation and deallocation of a space on the 'board'. Spatial concepts aren't that hard, and neither is the allocation/deallocation concepts in spatial analysis. So, quit arguing, and get to what you know. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list