In article <lnfwws5b5t....@nuthaus.mib.org>,
Keith Thompson <ks...@mib.org> wrote:
> RG <rnospa...@flownet.com> writes:
> > In article <lnk4m45eu0....@nuthaus.mib.org>,
> > Keith Thompson <ks...@mib.org> wrote:
> >
> >> RG <rnospa...@flownet.com> writes:
> >> > In article
> >> > <07f75df3-778d-4e3d-8aa0-fbd4bd108...@k22g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
> >> > Squeamizh <sque...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> On Sep 29, 3:02 pm, RG <rnospa...@flownet.com> wrote:
> >> [...]
> >> >> > This is a red herring. You don't have to invoke run-time input to
> >> >> > demonstrate bugs in a statically typed language that are not caught
> >> >> > by
> >> >> > the compiler. For example:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > [...@mighty:~]$ cat foo.c
> >> >> > #include <stdio.h>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > int maximum(int a, int b) {
> >> >> > return (a > b ? a : b);
> >> >> >
> >> >> > }
> >> >> >
> >> >> > int foo(int x) { return 9223372036854775807+x; }
> >> >> >
> >> >> > int main () {
> >> >> > printf("%d\n", maximum(foo(1), 1));
> >> >> > return 0;}
> >> >> >
> >> >> > [...@mighty:~]$ gcc -Wall foo.c
> >> >> > [...@mighty:~]$ ./a.out
> >> >> > 1
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Even simple arithmetic is Turing-complete, so catching all
> >> >> > type-related
> >> >> > errors at compile time would entail solving the halting problem.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > rg
> >> >>
> >> >> In short, static typing doesn't solve all conceivable problems.
> >> >
> >> > More specifically, the claim made above:
> >> >
> >> >> in C I can have a function maximum(int a, int b) that will always
> >> >> work. Never blow up, and never give an invalid answer.
> >> >
> >> > is false. And it is not necessary to invoke the vagaries of run-time
> >> > input to demonstrate that it is false.
> >>
> >> But the above maximum() function does exactly that. The program's
> >> behavior happens to be undefined or implementation-defined for reasons
> >> unrelated to the maximum() function.
> >>
> >> Depending on the range of type int on the given system, either the
> >> behavior of the addition in foo() is undefined (because it overflows),
> >> or the implicit conversion of the result to int either yields an
> >> implementation-defined result or (in C99) raises an
> >> implementation-defined signal; the latter can lead to undefined
> >> behavior.
> >>
> >> Since 9223372036854775807 is 2**63-1, what *typically* happens is that
> >> the addition yields the value 0, but the C language doesn't require that
> >> particular result. You then call maximum with arguments 0 and 1, and
> >> it quite correctly returns 1.
> >
> > This all hinges on what you consider to be "a function maximum(int a,
> > int b) that ... always work[s] ... [and] never give[s] an invalid
> > answer."
>
> int maximum(int a, int b) { return a > b ? a : b; }
>
> > But if you don't consider an incorrect answer (according to
> > the rules of arithmetic) to be an invalid answer then the claim becomes
> > vacuous. You could simply ignore the arguments and return 0, and that
> > would meet the criteria.
>
> I don't believe it's possible in any language to write a maximum()
> function that returns a correct result *when given incorrect argument
> values*.
>
> The program (assuming a typical implementation) calls maximum() with
> arguments 0 and 1. maximum() returns 1. It works. The problem
> is elsewhere in the program.
That the problem is "elsewhere in the program" ought to be small
comfort. But very well, try this instead:
[...@mighty:~]$ cat foo.c
#include <stdio.h>
int maximum(int a, int b) { return a > b ? a : b; }
int main() {
long x = 8589934592;
printf("Max of %ld and 1 is %d\n", x, maximum(x,1));
return 0;
}
[...@mighty:~]$ gcc -Wall foo.c
[...@mighty:~]$ ./a.out
Max of 8589934592 and 1 is 1
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