On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 05:22:39PM +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote: > > Assuming I'm right about that, then the use of a leading 0 to > > represent octal actually predates the prevalence of using 0 in dates > > by almost two decades. > > Not quite - at the time I started, punch cards and data entry forms were > already well established practice, and at least on the English machines, (ICL > 1500/1900 series) octal was prevalent, but I don't know when the leading zero > octal notation started, and where.
I said "prevalence." The key is that the average person did not start using leading zeros in dates until (I think) much, much later, and that's what's relevant to this discussion. If it were not commonplace for people to use decimal numbers with leading zeros, this whole thread would be a moot point, the python devs likely never would have considered changing the syntax, and we would not be having this discussion. Most people did not work as data entry clerks on ICL computers... :) Those participating in this thread have pretty much all seem to agree that the only places where decimal numbers with leading zeros really are common are either in rather specialized applications, such as computer-oriented data or serial numbers (which typically behave more like strings, from a computer science perspective), or the rather common one of dates. The latter case is perhaps what's significant, if any of those cases are. I tend to think that within the computer science arena, the history and prevalence of the leading 0 indicating octal far outweighs all of those cases combined. > I think you give it credence for far more depth of design thinking than what > actually happened in those days - some team working on a compiler made a > decision (based on gut feel or experience, or precedent, or whim ) and that > was that - lo! - a standard is born! Rather, I think you give the folks at Bell Labs way too little credit. They designed a programming language and an operating system that, while certainly not exactly the same as their original incarnations, even then contained a lot of features and design principles that remain state-of-the-art (though perhaps their specific implementation details have since been improved) and in many ways superior to a lot of what has come since (e.g. virtually anything that came out of Microsoft). [That's just my opinion, of course... but shared by many. :)] I don't think that happened by mere accident. That's not to say they were perfect, but those guys had their proverbial $#!t together. -- Derek D. Martin http://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
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