Derek Martin a écrit :
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 07:29:16PM +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
This should have been:
fprintf(STDERR, "DEBUG: %s", msg);
No, it shouldn't have. If I turn on debugging, I want the debug
messages to go to stdout, so that they can be captured along with the
output (of which there is almost none anyway) to clearly indicate when
they happened.
Then redirect stderr to stdout.
STDOUT is for *normal* program outputs. Debug informations, warnings,
and all verbosity should go to STDERR.
That's your opinion,
Nope, that's what stderr and stdout were designed for.
and I disagree. Besides which, if you're running
a program in debug mode, you're DEBUGGING... "normal" does not apply.
so you'd find it ok for, say, a compression program, to intermix
compressed data (it's normal output) with debugging infos ? Well, it's
your program so you're of course free to write it as you want...
You're being rather presumptuous... you don't even know how my program
is being used.
Nope. But I do know the difference between sterr and stdout. Call me
names for it if you want, but I'm not sure I understand how it will help.
Then in the modules that wanted to use it, I did:
>from debug import DEBUG, dprint
But I got some weird behavior. The imported copy
It's not a copy.
Actually, I'm pretty sure it is; i.e. there are two copies of the
name:
of the name, yes. Not of the object. We obviously weren't talking about
the same thing.
one in the namespace of the module, and one in the namespace of
the file into which I imported it.
>
At the time they are created, they
both point to the same object. Is that not the very definition of a
copy? The object itself may exist only in one place, but it has two
names; one in each namespace.
Indeed.
of DEBUG is
read-only;
It's not read-only.
The *object* very much is: it is immutable. The name of that object
is DEBUG, and thus DEBUG is read-only. You can make DEBUG point to a
different object by binding a different value to it, but if that value
is of an immutable type, it will still be a read-only object.
Here again, not talking about the same thing. And I do know what's an
immutable object, and how name binding works in Python, thanks.
In the sentence I wrote, as well as in general, "DEBUG" actually
refers to two different things: the object bound to the name, and the
name itself. It's up to the reader to infer which sense is correct
given the thing being said about it. It just so happens that the
English sentence I wrote refers to both simultaneously.
And that I was refering to the name when you were talking about the
object and vice-versa.
Just use a fully qualified name, so you dont make DEBUG local:
import debug
print debug.DEBUG
debug.DEBUG = True
print debug.DEBUG
Right, several people have already pointed this out.
Indeed. That's the pythonic solution to your problem. Since I can infer
from what you wrote above that you have a correct understanding of name
bindings and scopes in Python, I can only wonder why you don't just use
thos solution.
Which leads me
to believe that the point of your reply was to berate me into
following your conventions,
???
This is just insane. This is how name binding works in Python. It's not
"my convention", nor anyone else convention, it's just how the language
works.
which I have no interest in doing, in part
because they are counterproductive to my goals, and in part because
they are counter to the way I've been programming for 25 years.
Bad news : Python is not C.
Fortunately, it's not your call how I write my code.
Write you code the way you like, I just don't give a damn.
Now note that ALL_UPPER names are - by convention - considered
'constants'. If this is supposed to be altered, don't write it ALL_UPPER.
YOUR convention, not mine.
Nope, Python's coding standard. Not mine.
Also and FWIW, Python has a logging module in it's stdlib. Please use it
instead of any half-backed squared-wheel homegrown solution.
Note that the correct possessive form of "it" is "its" with no
apostrophe.
Note that this is an international newsgroup, that I'm not a native
english speaker, and that this remark, in the context, is - by usenet
standards, not mine - to be considered as a deliberate insult.
This was the only thing of value which you contributed,
Glad to be helpful somehow.
though really, using that is way overkill for my needs. If I've
written bad code, by all means, please correct it. If I've written
code in a style that you happen not to like, please feel free to keep
that to yourself.
If all you have to contribute here is flaming and insulting people that
at least try to answer your questions, please feel free to post your
contribution somewhere else.
My 2 cents
Must be Zimbabwe currency...
Godwin point ahead. Good luck Mr. Martin.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
