Ramon Diaz-Uriarte wrote: > On 20 Jan 2007 11:34:46 -0800, Isaac Gouy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Ramon Diaz-Uriarte wrote: > > > On 1/20/07, Carl Friedrich Bolz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > >>> Looking over the benchmarks, one gains the impression that Python > > > > is a > > > > >>> slow language. > > > > >> What does that even mean - a slow language? > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > The alioth benchmarks provide a set of numbers by which > > > > > languages may be compared. > > > > > > > > Wrong. The benchmarks provide a set of numbers by which > > > > _implementations_ of languages can be compared. After all, it is > > > > possible that someone implements a magic-pixie-dust-interpreter that > > > > executes Python programs several orders of magnitude fastes than > > > > CPython. Or you could say that C is slow because if you use CINT, a C > > > > interpreter ( http://root.cern.ch/root/Cint.html ) to execute it, it is > > > > slow. > > > > > > > > > Yeah, but this is hair-splitting. Except for Jython, IronPython, and > > > Stackless, I think when we say "Python is slow/fast" we think CPython > > > (otherwise, we qualify the implementation). For that matter it is > > > often said "the GIL ..."; oh, but wait, Stackless ... > > > > When we say "Python is slow/fast" what does "slow/fast" mean? > > > > Oh, well, I have no idea. I guess you'd have to define what "speed" > and, if that is a single number, then we can just rank languages. We'd > probably never agree on how to obtain a single number. But I think > most of us, when looking at the shootout, can see that there are some > languages that, for most of the programs, are consistently faster than > the rest, and others that are consistently slower. But really, I think > the shootout page has large, detailed and <b></b> statements about the > perils and pitfalls of measuring these things. (And I do not go to the > shootout to hear the oracle tell me which language I should use in my > next project).
That's wise ;-) Yes the shootout page has statements about the perils and pitfalls of measuring these things - it's encouraging that at least one person has noticed :-) > > > > > > > > > > > With other languages (e.g., Common Lisp) the separation between the > > > language and the implementation is key because, to begin with, there > > > is something external from, and independent of, any particular > > > implementation. That is not the case with Python. > > > > > > And the example of CINT is hair-splitting to the nth power.To begin > > > with, I do not think CINT implements the full standard C. But even if > > > it were, when people think of C they rarely think of CINT. > > > > And that's why the existence of CINT is such a stark reminder of the > > separation between the language and the implementation. When people > > think of C what do they think of - gcc? tiny-c? intel c? microsoft c? > > some mythical C implementation? > > > > > > Really, this ain't my war. Sure, there are two things: the language > and the implementation. But, for practical purposes, when most people > today say Python they mean CPython, whereas if the say Scheme, they > certainly need to say _which_ Scheme (I think only PLT is in the > official shootout page; there are others in the beta tests). If people > want to mean Jython or Stackless, they just say that. As for C, I > think people will need to qualify what exactly they mean. > > I think all these issues do not really lead to confusion for most of > us; certainly not if you go to the shootout page. But as I said, this > ain't my war. I was simply pointing out that correcting one poster for > talking about languages when referring to python was hair splitting. > > And I think we are all running in circles, because I guess we all > agree. This is turning into what in Spain (a country of catholic > tradition) we call a discussion about "the sex of the angels" (el sexo > de los angeles), i.e., whether angels are male or female or something > else. Since sexing angels is not my area of expertise, I'll just shut > up (I actually don't really know why I even said anything about this > issue; please, forgive my chatiness). In England the corresponding expression is "Counting Angels on a Pinhead" http://dannyayers.com/2001/misc/angels.htm > > Best, > > R. > > > > > > > > I think readers understood the previous poster. > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > R. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Carl Friedrich Bolz > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Ramon Diaz-Uriarte > > > Statistical Computing Team > > > Structural Biology and Biocomputing Programme > > > Spanish National Cancer Centre (CNIO) > > > http://ligarto.org/rdiaz > > > > -- > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > > > > > -- > Ramon Diaz-Uriarte > Statistical Computing Team > Structural Biology and Biocomputing Programme > Spanish National Cancer Centre (CNIO) > http://ligarto.org/rdiaz -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
