Re: Python + Java Integration

[Chas Emerick]

On Aug 23, 2006, at 11:50 AM, Ben Sizer wrote: Chas Emerick wrote: There is no doubt that Ruby's success is a concern for anyone who sees it as diminishing Python's status.  One of the reasons for Ruby's success is certainly the notion (originally advocated by Bruce Tate, if I'm not mistaken) that it is the "next Java" -- the language and environment that mainstream Java developers are, or will, look to as a natural next step. Is it? I thought it was more along the lines of "you've been struggling with Java to build web-apps all this time - here, have Ruby on Rails which is much easier". Python provides just as much simplicity in the web frameworks, but no consensus on what is 'best' (recent BDFL pronouncement aside), and thus only a small community for each framework. I bet that if Django or TurboGears had been fully ready for prime-time before Ruby on Rails, we wouldn't be having this discussion. There's a lot of truth in that, but there's no doubt that there is a meme out there that Ruby is the "next Java", regardless of any technical facts.  This is all marketing and perception, which is why I was positing JPype as being a wildcard that could help Python significantly by providing an easy migration path for Java folk who are tied to specific libraries. One thing that would help Python in this "debate" (or, perhaps simply put it in the running, at least as a "next Java" candidate) Java itself never deserved to be the 'next' anything anyway. It was sold on hype and has never lived up to it. I can see your point from a business perspective but I like to think Python is sold on its merits and not on being the new panacea for middle managers to deploy. I was having a discussion with a friend of mine recently, where I told him how depressed I became for a period after I realized that sales, marketing, and perception are all that really matter in this kooky technical world we spend so much time in.  For years I thought that "most people" make technical decisions based on the facts on the ground and the merits of each alternative.  While that's a great ideal to aspire to, it's not realistic as long as technical laypersons make very technical decisions -- in such an environment, heuristics, guidelines, and rules-of-thumb rule.  Ergo, it's good to have marketing firepower, because that can move the needle on rules-of-thumb *really* easily. So, back on topic, I think regardless of how we got here, or who's better (Ruby or Python -- and really, it's better for the larger universe of 'agile' languages to grow anyway), if we want to improve Python's attractiveness to mainstream Java developers and their managers, providing (and promoting!) an easy migration route like JPype is a no-brainer. Cheers, Chas Emerick Founder, Snowtide Informatics Systems Enterprise-class PDF content extraction [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://snowtide.com

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