Bulba! wrote:
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 11:19:56 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alex Martelli)
wrote:
[...]
You see, I'm not disagreeing with you that your model applies
_where it applies_. I only disagree that it applies in face of
stronger forces. Now what kind of forces is dominant in
most frequent scenarios would have to be worked out in tedious
empirical research I think. Which I haven't done, because
learning some economics is just a hobby to me.
Yes, by all means let's just spout our opinions without any of that
inconvenient tedious empirical research which might invalidate them.
[...]
Italian, at most German and French, and not Polish or Russian, closeness
to good international airports and other good transportation, closeness
to partner firms and potential customers' decision-makers, all appeared
to point to Warsaw, if I recall correctly. Mechanical engineers with
some programming experience or viceversa, good translators, and good
salespeople with connections in the mechanical industry, are not as
ultra-specialized as all that, after all.
Most sales offices in Warsaw do not employ esp. educated people in
my impression. OTOH, the carmaking facilities nowadays require
more much more know-how and specialized workforce than a sales
office does. Or at least that was my impression when I worked at
the construction machine manufacturer in Berlin.
Again you are forming impressions form rather limited evidence: I might
agree with you about the relative intelligence and education of
engineers over sales people, but that might be *my* bias showing.
Capital investments per worker in auto industries are reportedly
very high. Simple physical tasks are done largely by machines,
like this 100 million Deutschmark costing laser-cutting installation
that I've seen there, where a pile of iron bars is pulled in at one
end and the pile of ready components is spitted out of the other end
(unlike typical thermal cutting, laser has the advantage of not
destroying the metal structure adjacent to the cut, so the parts
of the machines subject to high-stress are oft produced this way).
The same is true of plasma-arc cutting for thicker steels, and I believe
it's still not possible to cut 3-inch stainless with a laser. But what's
your point?
Oh, and by the way that installation doesn't get used much.
Somebody at the office didn't check carefully enough the
energy prices before ordering it and later someone discovered
that off-site specialized cutting firms that take advantage of
energy available at low prices at special times in other countries
can get it produced cheaper. Moving it elsewhere or selling
is not an option, since it is a specially constructed, low, 50-meters
long hall that stands inside the huge manufacturing hall of the
company.
And you are using this example to try and argue that engineers are
better-educated than sales people? Who sold this installation? Who
bought it? How much, therefore, is education worth?
100 million DM (when 1 DM was worth some half of Euro
back then) down the drain. When the company was in rather
bad financial situation (later I've learned it was finally bought
out by Americans). Oh well. No big deal.
I was utterly shocked. Having grown up in Soviet times I have
been used to seeing precious resources wasted by organizations
as if resources were growing on trees, but smth like this?! In a
shining ideal country of Germany?! Unthinkable.
Indeed not. Quite often the brown paper bag is a factor in purchases
like this. I wouldn't be at all surprised if somebody with a major input
to the decision-making process retired to a nice place in the country
shortly afterwards. You appear to be making the mistake of believing
that people will act in the larger interest, when sadly most individuals
tend to put their own interests first (some would go as far as to define
self-interest as the determinant of behavior).
The firm I was working for had a consensus decision-making process (even
I was involved) and managers (and other employees) and stockholders were
mostly the same people -- it wasn't all that large a firm at the time.
Nobody needed to practice risk avoidance.
Again, you may have had good luck. Where I worked (including
some places in Germany and UK) it was almost the only factor
that seemed to matter to people - they'd do ANYTHING not to
take a risky decision, to "pass the buck", not to stick their necks
out, not to declare doing some work that involved challenges.
Some people are like that. I chose a long time ago to try not to work
with them whenever I could avoid it and, while that may have had
negative economic consequences I an convinced it has improved my quality
of life immensely. Of course, I have no proof for such an assertion.
[and on, and on, and on ...]
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming http://pydish.holdenweb.com/
Holden Web LLC +1 703 861 4237 +1 800 494 3119
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
