Bugs item #1168135, was opened at 2005-03-21 22:58
Message generated for change (Comment added) made by mrbax
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Category: Documentation
Group: Python 2.5
Status: Open
Resolution: None
Priority: 5
Submitted By: Michael R Bax (mrbax)
Assigned to: Raymond Hettinger (rhettinger)
Summary: Python 2.5a0 Tutorial errors and observations
Initial Comment:
Please find attached my updated list of errors and
observations in response to Python 2.5a0.
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>Comment By: Michael R Bax (mrbax)
Date: 2005-04-06 05:39
Message:
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Thanks for your comments. A handful of meta-observations:
Front Matter
> Your first correction is wrong. -ly adverbs are never
hyphenated
> (Chicago Manual of Style, Table 6.1, for instance).
"Wrong" is wrong. In fact, the CMS Q&A explicitly states
that "it has long been the practice elsewhere -- among British
writers, for example -- to hyphenate ly + participle/adjective
compounds. ... So it is a matter not of who is right or wrong
but of whose rule you are going to follow."
But I'm happy to leave it as is, given that it is a regional
preference.
3.1.2
> > >>> word[:1] = 'Splat'
> > -- This is trying to assign 5 letters to one?
>
> Slice assignment is replacement, not overwriting. This is
> replacing 1 byte with 5, which *is* valid, and perhaps the
point
> being made. Perhaps you would recommend another
change to
> be clearer?
I'm not recommending a change per se; I'm showing what a
newbie reader thinks! :-)
5.2
> > There is a way to remove an item from a list given its
index
> > instead of its value: the del statement.
> > -- How is this different to pop?
>
> pop, builtin on top of del, also saves and returns the
deleted value
> so it can be bound to something, which takes longer. ie
> def pop(self, i):
> ret = self[i]
> del self[i]
> return ret
Again, this is a question that the newbie reader will pose. I
may know the answer, but I am not asking the question for
myself. I think the question should be answered pre-
emptively in the tutorial!
9.2
> > Otherwise, all variables found outside of the innermost
scope
> > are read-only.
> > -- Explain what happens when you try to assign to
a
> > read-only variable?
>
> You create a new local of the same name and will not be
able to
> read the masked variable.
Right -- again, this is for the benefit of the newbie. Let's put
that in the tutorial! :-)
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Comment By: Terry J. Reedy (tjreedy)
Date: 2005-03-30 13:01
Message:
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Subject to reading that particular version (.5a0), I generally
agree with your suggestions. Here are some specific comments
on your comments. Feel free to incorporate them into a revised
suggestion list if you wish.
-----------
Your first correction is wrong. -ly adverbs are never hyphenated
(Chicago Manual of Style, Table 6.1, for instance).
-----------
3.1.2
>>> word[:1] = 'Splat'
-- This is trying to assign 5 letters to one?
Slice assignment is replacement, not overwriting. This is
replacing 1 byte with 5, which *is* valid, and perhaps the point
being made. Perhaps you would recommend another change to
be clearer?
-----------
##5.1.3
##Combining these two special cases, we see that "map(None,
list1, list2)" is a convenient way of turning a pair of lists into a list
of pairs
# -- Shouldn't one rather use zip()?
I would agree that 'convenient' should be removed and a note
added that this has been superceded by zip unless one wants
the different behavior of extending shorter sequences.
----------
5.1.3
filter(function, sequence)" returns a sequence (of the same type,
if possible)
-- How could this ever be impossible?
I suppose a broken class, but then what would filter do? If
filter 'works' for all builtins, I agree that we should just say so.
Perhaps 'returns a sequence of the same type (for all builtins
and sensible user classes)' -- if that is true
--------
5.2
There is a way to remove an item from a list given its index
instead of its value: the del statement.
-- How is this different to pop?
pop, builtin on top of del, also saves and returns the deleted value
so it can be bound to something, which takes longer. ie
def pop(self, i):
ret = self[i]
del self[i]
return ret
----------------------------
5.3
Sequence unpacking requires that the list of variables on the left
have the same number of elements as the length of the sequence
-- requires that the list of variables on the left has
(grammar)
-- requires the list of variables on the left to have
(alternate)
Since the code sequence on the left is not a Python list but only
a common-meaning list, I think even better would be
"Sequence unpacking requires that the number of variables on
the left be the same as the length of the sequence on the right"
------------------
5.7
Comparisons may be combined by the Boolean operators and
and or
-- combined using the (style)
In general, the return value of a short-circuit operator, when
used as a general value and not as a Boolean, is the last
evaluated argument.
-- rewrite: When used as a general value and not as a
Boolean, the return value of a short-circuit operator is the last
evaluated argument.
I would personally be a bit more radical here. As has been said
often on c.l.p in response to newby misconceptions about 'and'
and 'or', they are not operators, in the sense of syntactically
abbreviating function calls, but flow-control keywords
abbreviating if-else constructs. Saying so in the tutorial
might 'short-circuit' some of the misconceptions.
-------------
9
a derived class can override any methods of its base class or
classes, a method can call the method of a base class with the
same name.
-- classes, and a method (last phrase in a list)
There are no special constructors or destructors.
-- What about __init__, or is that a "normal"
constructor?
The special method __new__ constructs (and initializes
immutables) (so why isn't it a 'special constructor'?), __init__
initializes, But as I remember, the quoted sentence does seem
confusing.
---------------
9.2
Otherwise, all variables found outside of the innermost scope are
read-only.
-- Explain what happens when you try to assign to a
read-only variable?
You create a new local of the same name and will not be able to
read the masked variable.
------------
9.8
raise Class, instance
-- What's the point? In the example thereafter, these
three have the same effect:
raise c()
raise B, c()
raise instance
-- wasn't this "new form" covered in 8.5 (raise MyClass
(2*2))?
I personally agree that the tutorial should emphasize the newest
form (raise instance) and only mention back-compatible forms in
passing.
...
- What is an example of an exception that is NOT a class?
Last I knew, strings are still legal, though deprecated.
-------------
9.11
sum(i*i for i in range(10))
-- Why does this work?!
because generator expressions require their own parentheses
*unless* already directly enclosed by function-call parens. I
agree that this nice quirk should be explained,
-------------
B.1
...
>>> 7205759403792794L * 10L**30 / 2L**56
-- The "L" extension does not appear to be necessary
for the input -- why is it used?
Used to be needed before int-long unification. I agree that
tutorial should be updated to future-oriented present.
----------
C
The socket module uses the functions, getaddrinfo, and
getnameinfo
-- remove comma after "functions" [grammar]
and after getaddrinfo
-------------
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