On Nov 23, 9:48 pm, Ben Bangert <b...@groovie.org> wrote: > On Nov 23, 2010, at 5:30 PM, Mike Orr wrote: > > > It sounds good in general. Will it still have a default index view > > with a welcome page? I think that's a good minimum to get people > > started. It saves user frustration and questions on the list, "How do > > I structure my views and make the first route? What should the page > > template look like?" > > I'm wary of putting that in, cause I would hope that people will create > projects more than just the first time ever. And having to constantly delete > all that stuff is annoying. I should hope that following the documentation > would answer those questions, as expecting users to derive knowledge about > how to write views and routes based purely off a single example seems just as > error-prone. People have to read documentation, there's no amount of hand > holding the code can do that will help a user who refuses to read any docs at > all. > My 0.02 cents on this.
>From many bad nights of chasing bugs with TurboGears' quickstart command. Make it as simple as possible! In TG it was decided to go the "Full project route" and then having experience users delete what's not needed. Back then and still now I think that's a bad idea because a) most users will never delete anything for fear of breaking something b) most updates are painful because you need to diff the old project with a newly "quickstarted project" which gives a lot of false positives as you need to name your new temp package something different (otherwise paster will complain) c) it's a maintenance nightmare because you end up having stuff like if sqlalquemy this else that, because if two subpackages need to write to the same file it will get messy with paster. d) overall you end up having to know every possible combination which well does not scale at all. So in short make it as small as possible seriously! As for the "full option" I suggest a package to be created say pyramid- example which will contain a basic project for people that will want to "get started" you will clone/export that and build from there, this will give the "full setup experience" for people that want to strip down things from a working hello world. This package should be updated to the lastest quickstart before each release, and it's diff could even be the base for the migration document. As you will know exactly what changed from version to version given the magic of VCS :) > Yep, definitely. There is a need for a template that has a pylons-esque > setup, and I think that prolly should be its own package with its own docs. > Having it all in Pyramid is just too confusing, and makes the documentation > appear very wishy-washy. > > > So traversal doesn't need any boilerplate code? > perhaps a separate package with several different templates, something like http://pypi.python.org/pypi/ZopeSkel IMO should be the best. And then ALL documentation will be based on the main minimal package, and the section specific documentation could go something like. if you want a quickstart project with sqlalchemy you should do <list of instructions> or install the PyramidSkel package and run paster -t pyramid_alchemy my_sqlalquemy_project This will even help with people getting to know what each part of the quickstart does instead of just assuming "it's all vital things for the app" Last but not least I'll like to point out that I really think we should carry over pylons way of building a basic controller so we could carry on the approach of building a project in steps rather than one chunk at the start. That's something I always liked and miss from TG. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pylons-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-de...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to pylons-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-devel?hl=en.
