小林さん > First, the name of the mailing list suggest that a Chinese version of JLREQ > and (the still-in-development) KLREQ is in the works. If so, that's great > news.
Yes, Chinese text layout task force is going to publish several "REQs" of Asian language, Mongolian, Tibetan, and of course Traditional/Simplified Chinese/Hanzi. [1] I'm working on the first working draft of TC/SC Hanzi. We also want to list punctuations' code points as reference to solve the mess. Middle Dot is one of them. > About the middle dot in Traditional Chinese, based on the exchange between > Addison and me yesterday, both U+30FB and U+FF0E must be removed from the > equation, because the former has strong ties to Japanese-only usage (and > because Chinese fonts may not include a glyph for this character) and the > latter is a full-stop (aka period) that happens to be centered within the > em-box for Traditional Chinese use. Agreed. > That leaves U+00B7 and U+2027, but U+2022 should also be considered. I think U+2022 is a bullet and usually larger than the middle dot. And it may used for emphasis dot, filled one. If we get the glyph smaller, authors may need extra work to fix. > The U+2022 versus U+2027 mapping difference is likely yet another platform > (Windows versus OS X) difference in the treatment of some punctuation and > other symbols. I suggest that someone use the standard Traditional Chinese > IME on both platforms to input the character for 0xA145, then inspect which > Unicode character was emitted into the document.。 I will try to sort them out. Yosemite's default IME lists : 4 U+30FB 5 U+00B7 6 U+FF0E [2]. Quite terrible, > Source Han Sans (and Noto Sans CJK), the Pan-CJK typeface family that we > released earlier this year, do not conform to the above recommendation, but I > can implement these recommendations for Traditional Chinese fonts and font > instances in the Version 1.002 update that I am planning for the early part > of 2015. This would affect only U+00B7 (it is currently proportional) and > U+2022 (ditto). U+2027 is a full-width middle dot. Thank you. I may list them on the ZHREQ for middle dot, I'm thinking about: [U+00B7] en, zh-Hant, it will be half-width. [U+2027] en, zh-Hant, probably fallback to Chinese font to be full-width. [U+00B7] zh-Hant <-> zh-Hans, same. [U+2027] zh-Hant <-> zh-Hans, need mapping. There's still a lot of issue need to be solved, such as ellipsis in TC. Hope the ZHREQ will help. Later better than never. Regards. [1] http://www.w3.org/International/groups/chinese-layout/charter [2] https://www.dropbox.com/s/1muxxy6rucb5zyz/yosemiteimedot.png Bobby > Ken Lunde <[email protected]> 於 2014年12月11日 下午11:09 寫道： > > Bobby, > > Allow me to insert a few comments about this particular issue. > > > About the middle dot in Traditional Chinese, based on the exchange between > Addison and me yesterday, both U+30FB and U+FF0E must be removed from the > equation, because the former has strong ties to Japanese-only usage (and > because Chinese fonts may not include a glyph for this character) and the > latter is a full-stop (aka period) that happens to be centered within the > em-box for Traditional Chinese use. > > > If you examine Big Five and the near identical CNS 11643 Planes 1 and 2, > 0xA150 is grouped together with the so-called "small punctuation" whose > practical use still escapes me and most others. These "small" characters are > in Unicode starting from U+FE50: > > http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/UFE50.pdf > > In fact, the gap at U+FE53 would correspond to 0xA150 because the characters > are in Big Five order (and are in Unicode only because they were in Big > Five), so when Unicode Version 1.1 was compiled, U+FE53 was likely occupied > in a draft version, then removed, possibly to unify with U+00B7. > > Because the usage of these "small" characters is unclear, I would put less > emphasis on it and the use of U+00B7. Instead, the more common middle dot > would be 0xA145, which corresponds to U+2027 (according to your notes below), > but I think that U+2022 is the better mapping. > > The U+2022 versus U+2027 mapping difference is likely yet another platform > (Windows versus OS X) difference in the treatment of some punctuation and > other symbols. I suggest that someone use the standard Traditional Chinese > IME on both platforms to input the character for 0xA145, then inspect which > Unicode character was emitted into the document. > > My recommendation would thus be for Traditional Chinese fonts to include > full-width versions of U+00B7 (mainly for compatibility reasons), U+2022, and > U+2027. The latter two are to compensate for platform mapping differences, > and I would consider them to be much more important than U+00B7 in a > Traditional Chinese context. > > Source Han Sans (and Noto Sans CJK), the Pan-CJK typeface family that we > released earlier this year, do not conform to the above recommendation, but I > can implement these recommendations for Traditional Chinese fonts and font > instances in the Version 1.002 update that I am planning for the early part > of 2015. This would affect only U+00B7 (it is currently proportional) and > U+2022 (ditto). U+2027 is a full-width middle dot. > > Regards... > > -- Ken > >> On Dec 10, 2014, at 6:23 AM, Bobby Tung <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> There's a problem I found about the middle dot usage in Traditional Chinese. >> >> --Usage >> >> Middle dot for Traditional Chinese has 3 usages list below: >> >> 1, separates translated latin name in Hanzi, e.g. 理查・石田 >> >> 2, as decimal point in Hanzi e.g. 三・一四 >> >> 3, separates book, chapter, title e.g. 詩經・魏風・碩鼠 >> >> In Traditional Chinese, the Middle dot should be full-width and a filled >> round dot in the middle. >> >> --Codepoint >> >> There's some codepoints general used for the middle dot in Traditional >> Chinese. >> >> · U+00B7 MIDDLE DOT >> ‧ U+2027 HYPHENATION POINT >> ・ U+30FB KATAKANA MIDDLE DOT >> ． U+FF0E FULLWIDTH FULL STOP >> >> And in Simplified Chinese usage, the middle dot is U+00B7. >> >> U+00B7 from A150 and U+2027 from A145 on BIG 5 code table[1]. >> >> But I think U+00B7's definition more suitable for the middle dot than U+2027 >> / U+FF0E. >> >> --Solutions >> >> Considering about interoperability and codepoint definition, I have 2 >> proposals. >> >> 1. use U+00B7 as general middle dot, if authors want to let it full-width, >> use U+30FB. But most Chinese fonts do not have the glyph, certainly fallback >> to Japanese font. [2] >> >> 2. use U+00B7 as general middle dot, and in Traditional Chinese subset, let >> glyph be full-width. >> >> >> ===== >> >> >> 各位，我發現繁體字的中點在使用上相當混亂，想藉寫中文排版需求時把標準訂下來，提出兩個方案。 >> >> 先提出繁體字「連接號」（舊稱音節號）使用的狀況： >> >> 1, 用來分隔漢譯姓與名，例如：理查・石田 >> >> 2, 作為漢字數字的小數點，例如：三・一四 >> >> 3, 用來分隔書、章、作品名，例如：詩經・魏風・碩鼠 >> >> 而在繁體字的用法上，連接號應該為全形/全角，為置中的實心點。 >> >> 再來從實際的文件上，會發現有最常使用的四個Codepoints： >> >> · U+00B7 MIDDLE DOT >> ‧ U+2027 HYPHENATION POINT >> ・ U+30FB KATAKANA MIDDLE DOT >> ． U+FF0E FULLWIDTH FULL STOP >> >> 簡體字則是統一使用U+00B7，而U+00B7來自BIG >> 5的A150，但我認為U+00B7的定義比較符合使用狀況，所以不考慮使用U+2027與U+FF0E。 >> >> 所以提出的方案如下： >> >> 1, >> 使用U+00B7作為標準中點，若作者想要全形，則使用U+30FB，但因為這個Codepoint許多中文字型沒有造，所以幾乎一定會Fallback到日文字型。 >> >> 2, 使用U+00B7作為標準中點，但在繁體字字型中，將其造為全形。 >> >> >> [1]: http://www.khngai.com/chinese/charmap/tblbig.php?page=0 >> [2]: http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr11/ >> >> >> >> WANDERER Digital Publishing Inc. >> Bobby Tung @bobtung >> Mobile：+886-975068558 >> [email protected] >> http://wanderer.tw >> >
