Charlie Coleman wrote: > At 06:39 AM 1/23/2007 -0300, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > ... >> We Catholics have a great advantage in life. We can do whatever so long >> as we go to church on sunday and confess. I think other Christians were >> not granted the privilege ;c) > ... > > Ah. This might be where I'm having problems making myself clear. > > Being Catholic does not mean you are a Christian. Mormons claim to be > Christians, Christian Scientists claim to be Christian, and Jehovah's > Witnesses claim to be Christian. I don't believe those religions teach true > Christianity. There may well be Christians that are members of these > religions, but the religion itself does not accurately reflect Christian > beliefs in my opinion.
I think it has been asked of you many times in this thread, but considering you are seemingly contradicting your statements I'll ask you once more. ARE YOU A CHRISTIAN BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE IN CHRISTIAN PRECEPTS OR BECAUSE YOU ACT ACCORDING TO CHRISTIAN PRECEPTS? > > I've said it before: the one group of people that has done the most good in > advancing the message of the Gospel is Catholics; the one group that has > done the most damage to the message of the Gospel is the Catholics. I think you are wrong. What is 'the Gospel'? The Bible? The old testament or the new one? As interpreted/translated by whom? Ignoring which books? Your definition (I am guessing you are protestant) may be clearly different from Catholic definition. To be Catholic you must accept the church's version of the whole thing by the numbers. Else I guess you are one of the countless protestant branches. So if you are protestant then the church did not advance the message of 'the Gospel', seeing that you understand that message in a different manner than the church (and obviously the real message is the interpretation). > > I haven't studied the early history of the Catholic Church very closely, > but somewhere along the line it morphed into pretty much what Jesus > condemned. The 'legalistic' concepts of Catholicism are exactly what Jesus > faced and rejected while he was on Earth (at that time it was the Jewish > 'legalism' which he tore apart). You may have been joking, but from what > I've seen a lot of Catholics believe exactly what you said: "I'll be OK as > long as I get to Church Sunday and confess." Nothing could be further from > the truth. Which 'truth'? Or do you actually believe god is so limited, that there is only one truth, one interpretation, one way to see the world, ein faterland, ein fuhrer. > Relying on "works", especially "tally" type things (I can make > up for 2 bad things by doing 3 good ones), is not what Jesus taught. Yet > this is what Catholicism still puts forth (from what I've seen - but it's > interesting to note that some Catholic Churches I've attended in the US in > the past few years seem to actually be getting back to God's Grace as the > source of salvation). > > The whole "works" thing is where I think Catholicsm has done the most > damage to Christianity. By focusing so much on deeds as the means to > salvation, Catholicsm pretty much makes Christianity sound like just any > other religion. E.g. do x, then y, then z, give money, yada yada, and your > soul will go to heaven. But that's the fallacy of all non-Christian > religions. Again, 'fallacy'? ein Reich? > Most of them make it seem that the person can control their own > salvation. If they work hard enough, if they fast long enough, if they > remember to bow down the right number of times, etc. Not necessarily so. Go to a Catholic priest and ask him about 'grace'. > But Christianity is > first and foremost about how man is totally helpless to change his relation > with God. But yet he can dictate his terms on how god is defined? What is god's will? They can state firmly that god can only be called 'god', not 'allah' or whatever. They can also force god to manifest himself as a single entity, and not as many entities (as in multi theist religions). They can state that god is within human beings but not in animals or stones (and a little time ago, not even in women). My! For a helpless being, man has a lot of power! > It took an act of God to provide the way for man's salvation. To > accept that is ultimately humbling which is why so many have a hard time > with it. Mankind has this "pride" aspect where we think we know it all, or > can know it all, and that we can take care of it ourselves. > > -Charlie > > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: [email protected] Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
