php-i18n Digest 2 Mar 2001 17:21:06 -0000 Issue 55
Topics (messages 127 through 131):
Re: International support
127 by: Peter Van Dijck
128 by: Hironori Neal Sato
Fwd
129 by: Taylor Silvers
Re: [PHP] International support
130 by: PHPBeginner.com
[Resend]
131 by: jimmythetulip190.hotmail.com
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"Ok the next part of this message is an article I thought would be
generally interesting so I'm not hesitating to post it entirely. It was
forwarded to me so I'm not sure of the source."
here:
http://www.zend.com/zend/cs/newbold.php
Peter
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://liga1.com ,a weblog on:
- Localisation
- Internationalisation
- Globalisation
- Accessibility
(I'm only cc'ing to php-i18n)
On Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 10:22:37AM -0800, Soma Interesting wrote:
>I'm currently working a project that is intended to handle Japanese
>character sets - and now I'm told ideally iMode too. :) The iMode isn't
>such an issue at the moment - but the article below has spooked me a
>little. At an early point in the project we tested if putting some input
>into a web form, which ultimately was handled by php then stored in
>postgres would return fully intact - and it did. This left me comfortable
>that PHP and Postgres don't seem to care what language they're storing in
>fields or variables. I'm 'guessing' that this is because the data, whether
>its English or Japanese is being stored in binary (or something else?). Of
>course I wouldn't be able to sort the data or do anything else that would
>require PHP/Postgres to be able to interpret the data. However if I compile
>Postgres with locals support for the character set/language in question -
>then postgres will be able to sort Japanese. Is this right?
I haven't touched Postgres in last four years, but I would assume you
are correct. As far as MySQL goes, you can set locale (actually,
charset) and sorting Japanese text should work just fine.
>>Since r-newbold.com is in Japanese only, Studio Omame made sure to utilize
>>PHP's Japanese character set conversion functions. However, this proved to
>>be a challenge.
>
>Is this available for v4 of PHP yet?
So far, the answer is no. I have attempted to implement Japanese
extension to PHP4 before, but bumped into few problems. At that time,
I had to quit working on it since I ran out of my spair time. But,
we do have someone else working on this issue. I don't have any
dates though.
For time being, you can check out the latest version 3 that we rolled
out at http://www.php.gr.jp/project/i18n/ . I have also written
English README at http://www.php.gr.jp/project/i18n/README.i18n_eng.html .
I hope that will get you started.
Hiro
--
Hironori Neal Sato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
YYplanet.com - http://www.yyplanet.com/
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Hi (Soma Interesting?)
I am also a developer here in Tokyo and have done few I-Mode websites using
PHP and mySQL. (I've used PostgreSQL with Japanese, but not for I-Mode)
( see www.japaninc.com/i )
There's no particular problems of storing the 2-bit data in your databases,
the only thing is that to do sorting you have to compile the databases with
the language needed ( regardless of which database you use - see their docs
they all support that).
With PHP there's a little problem using string functions. strlen(), for
instance will return you the number of bytes. In Latin characters ASCII
1-255 a character is a byte, but that doesn't apply to Japanese which use
double bits (some characters are even three bits), so a strlen() will not
return you the number of Hiragana & Kanji in string - it will return you the
number of bits these Kanji were composed from - VERY, VERY UGLY....
You need to use PHP3 Japanese interpretation to do that kind of tasks.
In our company we use a different server for Japanese characters running
PHP3 JIS, and the pages are being included form there.
IE: www.fusion-2000.net runs both PHP4 and PHP3 JIS with PostgreSQL at the
back end.
While www.japaninc.com/i goes on PHP4.0.1pl2 and mySQL, (check out that
game)
So, no worries, it is all possible to do, except there's a pain with
choosing PHP version for the server.
Sincerely,
Maxim Maletsky
Founder, Chief Developer
PHPBeginner.com (Where PHP Begins)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.phpbeginner.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Soma Interesting [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 3:23 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PHP] International support
Hello everyone,
I'm currently working a project that is intended to handle Japanese
character sets - and now I'm told ideally iMode too. :) The iMode isn't
such an issue at the moment - but the article below has spooked me a
little. At an early point in the project we tested if putting some input
into a web form, which ultimately was handled by php then stored in
postgres would return fully intact - and it did. This left me comfortable
that PHP and Postgres don't seem to care what language they're storing in
fields or variables. I'm 'guessing' that this is because the data, whether
its English or Japanese is being stored in binary (or something else?). Of
course I wouldn't be able to sort the data or do anything else that would
require PHP/Postgres to be able to interpret the data. However if I compile
Postgres with locals support for the character set/language in question -
then postgres will be able to sort Japanese. Is this right?
Have I got this all right so far? I have attempted to do my research on
this - but finding a real beginners guide to international web development
has been a trick. And the best sources I have found on this topic generally
are specific to Oracle. Any links would be appreciated.
Ok the next part of this message is an article I thought would be generally
interesting so I'm not hesitating to post it entirely. It was forwarded to
me so I'm not sure of the source.
For the postgres folks, these developers went with MySQL - I've chosen
Postgres. Is there anything MySQL does that Postgres doesn't in terms of
language support that I should be aware of?
>Back to case study
>r-newbold.com
>
>George Baptista is riding the wave of the latest technology with his
>company's newest venture:
><http://www.r-newbold.com>r-newbold.<http://www.r-newbold.com>com, a
>wireless i-Mode site created with PHP.
>
>Based in Tokyo, George is a Web developer and co-partner with Izumi
>Hiroshima at <http://www.omame.com>Studio <http://www.omame.com>Omame. He
>was part of the creative team behind the Japanese-language site, and he is
>finding that i-Mode is not only fashionable, but also the face of the
future.
>
>r-newbold.com was developed for British fashion designer, Paul Smith. NTT
>DoCoMo's i-Mode Web-browsing cellular phones, which already have over 10
>million users, offers a fast wireless data service with Internet access.
>In Japan, it's been a hit with the younger generation. And since
>r-newbold.com's target population is young, hip and fashionable, the
>decision to create an i-Mode site rather than a regular Web site made
>perfect sense.
>
>PHP and i-Mode: The perfect match
>"i-Mode is exploding in Japan," George adds. "It offers new and
>interesting challenges to the developer. The i18n J version of PHP is an
>increasingly popular choice for developers [in Japan] because of its
>overall performance, speed of development, and character set capability
>features."
>
>George and his team at Studio Omame have already been using PHP for about
>a year prior to developing the r-newbold site, and were very pleased with
>its performance. He cites several reasons for his company's choice of PHP
>including:
>* PHP's overall performance and reliability
>* ease with which to prototype in
>* PHP's large and growing developer base
>"There are a growing number of developers in Tokyo using it. We also knew
>there was ample support on both main and Japanese PHP mailing lists for
>any problems that might come up," George says.
>"PHP became especially useful to us when Shigeru Kanemoto, Hironori Neal
>Sato and a few other developers worked to release a version of PHP
>3.0.15-i18n. We are looking forward to this same core of people to also
>soon release an i18n J version of PHP 4. We expect it will provide us with
>even greater speed and performance than PHP 3."
>Studio Omame's decision to use PHP was welcomed by Paul Smith's company.
>The open-source nature of the product was simply not an issue. "We
>suggested PHP, and there was no problem. They were happy about the
>cost-savings involved," George recalls.
>
>PHP's Japanese challenge
>Since r-newbold.com is in Japanese only, Studio Omame made sure to utilize
>PHP's Japanese character set conversion functions. However, this proved to
>be a challenge.
Is this available for v4 of PHP yet?
>"Dealing with character sets when developing for the Japanese market is a
>headache," George says. "There's not one, but 3 character sets in wide
>use: SJIS, EUC and JIS.
>
>"We used all of them for this project. All output for the i-Mode platform
>needs to be SJIS, while input to MySQL is in EUC, and data for mailing was
>encoded in JIS. Ensuring the integrity of data via character set
>conversion was a very important factor. Ultimately, PHP made this project
>much smoother and very enjoyable. Not having to worry about character set
>mangling is a godsend."
>
>There was also the task of adapting PHP from computers to telephones. "The
>unique nature of celluar phone interfaces affected our application
>development. For example, people browsing the Web using i-Mode phones tend
>to use the back button a lot, rather than 'back' or 'return' links.
>Figuring out how to deal with this in preserving session data integrity
>took a little thinking."
>
>George and his team did figure it out, although George points out that
>"Daryl Jones of TEA, a communications firm based in Silicon Valley, helped
>out tremendously with the network and server consulting and set-up, so
>that we could focus totally on PHP development."
>It took Studio Omame almost two months to write the PHP scripts for all of
>the site's functions, including mail and accessing MySQL. "As much as
>possible, we try to stick with *nix, Apache, PHP," George says.
>
>The current shop database holds approximately 60 records, and the
>membership section is designed to easily handle an initial 20,000 records.
>In addition, other miscellaneous tables are used for administrative
purposes.
>
>PHP's functions
>PHP serves a variety of functions on the r-newbold site, including:
>* authentication and sessions via PHPLIB for a member-only section
>* PHP scripts + cron accessing MySQL database to send out daily e-mails
>* heavy use of mail functions for viral-marketing features
>* detecting specific browser/celluar handset and serving the appropriate
>interface
>* Japanese character set functions specific to i18n version, ensuring SJIS
>output, internal processing in EUC
>* mail operations in JIS
>
>As far as security purposes are concerned, Studio Omame decided to use
>PHPLIB for authentication. "At first we tried using the standard HTTP
>authentication method, but it turned out that certain i-Mode handsets had
>somewhat sketchy browser implementations, and they would need to log-in
>for each password-protected page! So we turned to PHPLIB, which worked
>very nicely."
>
>The site currently receives more than 3,000 page views per day, with most
>visitors spending about 5 minutes at a time on the site. "In Japan, people
>generally use i-Mode sites in mini-bursts, for example, while waiting for
>the train, riding the bus or walking about the street," George says.
>
>r-newbold.com hopes to receive approximately 200,000 visitors a day
>initially. "We tried to reduce the amount of calls to MySQL as much as
>possible, and instead created static pages that are updated from an
>administration screen."
>
>Data is collected on visitors in the members' section only. It's an
>entirely opt-in, voluntary feature, George notes.
>Studio Omame also used Adobe's GoLive 5 for the information design and
>page-template creation for this project. The WebDav and i-Mode eMoji
>features were particularly useful.
>
>As i-Mode becomes more and more popular, George says he hopes PHP will
>eventually provide more i18n compatibility.
>In the meantime, Studio Omame has launched omake.com in an experimental
>i-Mode site using PHP. Several other i-Mode projects are also in the
>pipeline. "We plan to use PHP extensively for all of them," George
predicts.
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