@Esteban: Of course you are right that there are cases a standalone app would be more convenient e.g. as you mentioned: graphical (image processing) apps, digital audio workstations, like Cubase. In most cases these are the kind of apps that deal with personal (local) data, which mostly is not connected to a central data storage on a hosting system. In other cases that is for users having real time access to data stored on a central point, web apps are preferable. Like the banking app, Internet shops.
Also on a smaller scale as browser intranet apps e.g. small independent firms, clinics Law firms, accountancies and so on. Of course these should have web apps running in the firm's intranet only. These used to be client server apps, mostly with thin clients or ven just terminals (VT100) for example running on a mini computer e.g. DEC PDP 11/xx. Even today, mainframe applications all run on the host. Access is by terminal only. This is the most secure environment you can get. I initially grew up with mainframe application programming btw. So to me, it seems logical that -at least in a business environment- a single application (or a group of those) running on a central system (server) is preferable. There are many blogs and articles on the web that describe the pro and contra of web apps versus standalone apps. For example this blog: http://www.paulgraham.com/road.html (It's a bit of a long read, but I do recommend it) Paul Graham describes this theme much better than I ever can do. Note that this blog is written 18 years ago and he had to work with the technical limitations of 2000 and before. Today web technology is far more advanced, enabling us to make really professional web apps. Most limitations are gone. Seen in this perspective, Pharo (or some other Smalltalk versions) combined with Seaside are excellent tools to create versatile web apps in a relatively short amount of time. I think the limitations of designing and building professional web apps are perhaps much less than one might think. Like with many other challenges, one gets better by actually doing it. Some other points I'd like to react on: Dependency on 3rd party tools in combination with Pharo/Seaside? As far as I know now, in Seaside itself that would be only Javascript and jQuery? It is unlikely that these will disappear because the whole web world depends on these two. In Pharo image itself that would in most cases be at least a database like Postgress. If the need arises for special GUI web elements, these could be made relatively easy in Smalltalk. And of course it all relies heavily on CSS which is very advanced, but that's a good thing! A good book about CSS is helpful. Yet another reason for me to make -even stand alone- apps with Pharo as Seaside web apps is, that (at least for me) it is much harder to make a native GUI app within Pharo. Using the browser as GUI is much easier. Honestly, I doubt if this would be better if GTK is deployed as GUI? Also one would be bound to the GTK style/appearance and some themes they might provide. No such limitations exist using Seaside with good CSS styling. Also GTK does not work on mobile devices. So for me GTK or any other native GUI are out because of that. On a Mac (similar on Windows btw) GTK needs an extra layer. It uses the Quartz backend. GTK is not feature complete, riddled with bugs e.g. Wacom tablets with GIMP), new releases are not compatible etc. See for yourself. Don't stick your heads in a wasp nest. I don't understand why one would have to, because Pharo has excellent GUI elements. You could subclass Morph classes.? (I am not aware of most further GUI enhancements in Pharo, because I still cannot run Pharo 7 on my mac mini due to a VM problem since 2017, same with Squeak btw. (see other thread) still using pre-Spur Pharo 5) Imho, by coupling GTK to Pharo one creates an unstable big dependency situation. This stands opposite on having Smalltalk as autonomously and independent as possible. Errm, note btw that if you change addressing me as "fanatic" into "racing a bit too fast" i can accept this :o) (By "fanatic" I think of much worse things happening on our planet all the time. So sad) The "always as web app, whenever possible" is something I strive for, not that the whole world must do this. Thanks TedvG -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
