El jue., 24 ene. 2019 a las 13:18, Sven Van Caekenberghe (<s...@stfx.eu>) escribió:
> > > > On 24 Jan 2019, at 17:04, K K Subbu <kksubbu...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 24/01/19 7:23 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > >> Everybody is of course totally free to do whatever they want, but > >> really, why the hell would you want to do that ? > > Because text has many uses other than just feeding into a compiler for > translation to machine code? People who come from Unix/Linux world are used > to using a rich collection of tools that deal with text in various ways. > > I am myself a server/linux guy, an emacs user, I know what is all possible > and what the unix philosophy is. > > I also know how to integrate Pharo into that world, and this is super > important. > > >> You lose so much by doing that, I do not even know where to start. > > > > Live coding (i.e. coding in the presence of instances) is undoubtedly > more powerful than edit-compile-run cycle. Text is used to direct IDE to > edit live objects. But text has many more uses than just issuing commands. > If beginners start using vim just to edit code due to established habits, > they will soon realize the ease of live coding and remain in IDE. This is a > self-correcting error. > > Well, I don't think so. > > The users that you are going to attract in this way (the ones that don't > want to leave their own IDE/editor), will look at textual Pharo and find it > very strange and ill suited to textual editing (and they are absolutely > right), they will not discover the power, will not learn (from this > experience alone) what object design/programming/power is, and will ask for > more (e.g. give me C style compiler errors, better/easier structure of the > file, fixed the !! escape issue, etc, ...). > > We should admit for once text-based programming already won for this age. Want a nice proof? Check Mr. Robot series. That's how a new generation of devs is getting it. It doesn't matter if we have 30 years of experience supporting exploratory UI is the best way, not even if we are fully convinced of it. Probably it's time to invert the burden of proof, and let people decide how they want to get into Pharo. If they want an Objective-Smalltalk mode, let people live and die with it. And I love the Class Browser, but we cannot assume every coder has developed an exploratory mindset. Just ready to jump into a world of new tools. "Forcing" on developing it through tools isn't actually nice attitude neither. And there are really good devs out there, it may just happen that they don't want a shock therapy as someone told above. Or they don't have the time+energy for now. Let people themselves discover the right tools for them, or stay where they want to. So IMHO until someone really sits down and figure out a cool Pharo REPL, we will get the same print me "Hello World" trolls in forums. Cheers, Hernán > >> Editing a .st file has always been possible, it is masochism.Vim is > much more than just a typewriter. It can leverage a whole set of > > text-based tools. One could use it to auto generate methods, clean them > up and then file into Pharo. > > > > Regards .. Subbu > > > > >
