That would be nice. So the issue is how we can find the proper size of the community learning/doing together.
On 20/11/17 12:10, horrido wrote: > Well, I don't think we have to worry about Pharo becoming too big. > > I never expected Smalltalk to ever become big (again). I just want to see it > lifted out of obscurity. If people talk about Pharo in the same breath as > Clojure, Elixir, Haskell, and Rust, that would be great. > > > > Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas-2 wrote >> Agreed. This obsession with popularity in North America is kind of sad >> when is looked from elsewhere and is really pervasive: from teenagers >> comedies to technologies and business. Any community needs "proper size" >> to keep momentum and agility. Too big, it become bureaucratic or >> stagnant. Too little, it become fragile and non supportive. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Offray >> >> >> On 20/11/17 11:20, Andrew Glynn wrote: >>> The amount of FUD spread by M$ and IBM, just two very noticeable >>> examples out of numerous others, is possible because very few of those >>> laws are applicable unless the statement is part of a paid campaign by >>> the originating company. If I exaggerate how well my MB 400E was made >>> on a blog post, neither I nor MB are likely to run into any legal >>> issues. If MB does so in an advertisement, it becomes a different >>> matter. >>> >>> >>> >>> That said, I don’t think merit is really in question. There are two >>> bigger ones: >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. To whose advantage is inefficient development and the tooling that >>> promotes it? >>> >>> >>> >>> 2. How would people who find it too /difficult/ to maintain state in >>> a single threaded language acclimatize themselves to Pharo >>> Smalltalk (or to any actual programming language, for that matter) ? >>> >>> >>> >>> The first question doesn’t have one answer, since it’s to the >>> advantage of a number of interested parties, from large organizations >>> that can afford inefficiency more than smaller competitors (and >>> simultaneously can afford the not inconsequential investment in >>> writing a proprietary Smalltalk or something similar for things that >>> “must work”), to click-bait online ‘forums’ such as “Slack Overload”. >>> >>> >>> >>> The second, well, I suppose how you would answer it depends on your >>> experience working with said people. My own hasn’t been particularly >>> positive. >>> >>> >>> >>> Not that I’m particularly enamoured with the idea of Pharo becoming >>> mainstream. It would then be subject to the same disruption as >>> current mainstream environments. The degradation of Java environments >>> over the past 20 years is a good example. It was never great, but the >>> combination of syntactic parmesan to hide the bad spaghetti and the >>> need to support every passing fad has made it nearly unusable. I’ve >>> seen a number of companies specifying Java 7 or even Java 6 in their >>> tech stacks “because Java 8 is too unreliable”. >>> >>> >>> >>> Until mainstream “software engineers” start /acting/ like engineers, >>> i.e. people who make things /work/, rather than popularity contestants >>> or fashion victims, that won’t change. >>> >>> >>> >>> Andrew Glynn >>> >>> >>> >>> *From: *Richard A. O'Keefe <mailto: >> ok@.ac >> > >>> *Sent: *Sunday, November 19, 2017 6:19 PM >>> *To: * >> Pharo-users@.pharo >> <mailto: >> Pharo-users@.pharo >> > >>> *Subject: *Re: [Pharo-users] New Pharo article at The Cohort >>> >>> >>> >>> I'm obviously missing a lot of the context here, but in my >>> >>> country (New Zealand) there is something called the >>> >>> Fair Trading Act. >>> >>> >>> >>> My understanding from reading the Commerce Commission web >>> >>> site is that >>> >>> - false or misleading representations about goods or >>> >>> services or the availability of goods are against the >>> >>> law >>> >>> - "The penalties for breaching the Act can be severe" >>> >>> (Grant Harris). >>> >>> - obviously wild exaggerations made to be funny are sort >>> >>> of OK, but if anyone falls for them you could find this >>> >>> tested in court >>> >>> - "Any claims made to bolster the image of a business or >>> >>> its products or services must be accurate." >>> >>> - "The Act applies even when there was no intention to >>> >>> breach the Act". (Grant Harris again.) >>> >>> >>> >>> http://www.comcom.govt.nz/fair-trading/fair-trading-act-fact-sheets/claiming-you-re-something-you-re-not/ >>> >>> >>> >>> The Fair Trading Act was passed as part of a program of market >>> >>> liberalisation and in order to foster competition and market >>> >>> efficiency, and the majority of the cases have been trader-to- >>> >>> trader. Why mention this? Because it's not just places where >>> >>> consumer protection is high-ranked that have such laws; it's >>> >>> also places that are gung-ho about free markets and competition >>> >>> and want to protect businesses. >>> >>> >>> >>> Law in the USA varies from state to state. For California, see >>> >>> https://www.truthinadvertising.org/california/ >>> >>> (which has a navbar on the right for other states). >>> >>> >>> >>> Me, I think Pharo is good enough to "sell" on its merits >>> >>> without any exaggerations. (If you could combine the great >>> >>> looks of Dolphin Smalltalk with the great features of Pharo, >>> >>> drool...) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > >
