Hi,
I just tried again, and the latest GToolkit image does contain FileSystem class
>> gtExampleZip:
Inspect this:
Smalltalk gtExamplesContained select: [ :each |
each method methodClass instanceSide = FileSystem ]
This is the image:
https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/gtoolkit/5595/artifact/gtoolkit.zip
Cheers,
Doru
> On Aug 25, 2016, at 11:40 PM, Tudor Girba <tu...@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Nicolai,
>
> Thanks a lot for the feedback. Please let’s continue. See more inline.
>
>> On Aug 25, 2016, at 6:34 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaih...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> 2016-08-25 8:47 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tu...@tudorgirba.com>:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Hi Doru,
>> some questions and feedback ( I am sorry for my tone or if this sounds
>> negative, it isn't meant to be)
>>
>> Over the last coupe of years Stefan Reichhart and the rest of the GT team
>> worked on an implementation of examples. The work is inspired from previous
>> work done by Markus Gaelli and Adrian Kuhn.
>>
>> As one of the goals of GT is to offer a live programming environment,
>>
>> Isn't this what we already have, a live programming environment, I think for
>> newcomers (and maybe others) this needs to make be more clear, how is
>> different, what gap are you trying to fill.
>>
>> one important issue is how to move from the static code to live objects as
>> fast as possible.
>>
>> Isn't code always "static" and aren't objects always "live", how do play
>> gtExamples any role in this?
>
> What I meant is that I want to be as little as possible in the static code
> browser. Instead I want to write code in the presence of a bounded “self”
> which happens either in a debugger or in an inspector.
>
> The gap that examples fill is that when I look at a static code and I have
> examples about it, I can possibly jump to those examples and code against
> their result. So, instead of coding a method about a FileReference in the
> code browser, I will code it against an instance of a FileReference. Hence,
> we make live programming easier to achieve.
>
>
>> That is why we worked on this library as a solution to provide a link
>> between the static code and live objects.
>>
>> From my understanding, I think this "link" between code an objects is the
>> real valuable new point. This is the great thing about gtExamples. link from
>> code (the example methods itself or methods refering a class
>> to an example object/instance that can be inspected (the raw object or an
>> object specific inspector pane).
>> This is what I would consider the real step forward. You see a method
>> refering to class TextModel and Nautilus or any other tool not only offers a
>> method to browse all Users of this class, but too, a dedicated
>> list of "example methods" where every example has a view for this example
>> instance that let the user show and interact (even for non-visual objects
>> through the "evaluater pane", or just see the code creating this
>> example.
>
> Exactly.
>
>> We really miss examples, I often see questions on the mailing list
>> (especially about spect) that can be explained easily with an example. And
>> even worse, often the examples already exists, they just aren't as visible.
>
> Exactly. These examples are particularly amplified by the fact that we have
> an inspector that can provide a reacher experience through different views.
>
>
>> Furthermore, this examples library also enables the definition of assertions
>> on the examples, and this provides the possibility of rethinking the way we
>> construct tests throughout our system. Tests are great as they help us
>> create live objects and then to assert live properties.
>>
>> This whole thing sounds as if Unit-Test were a good idea but not the way
>> that they are used today, I strongly disagree. I don't see this as a
>> "rethinking the way we construct tests", yes, we can
>> augment the current set of tests with addtional assertions on live objects,
>> but this is not a replacement.
>> "Tests are great as they help us create live objects" This is not my only
>> purpose for writing tests, often unit-tests cover methods and "private-apis"
>> not even considered to be used on live objects. You can not (or I don't want
>> to
>> ) write tests only on "finished lived objects" sometimes we need tests for
>> initialiazation/private code or exception handling I don't see how we can
>> offer this only by using example instances (yes your "rethinking" sounds
>> like "this
>> is the better way to do tests”).
>
> I think there is a misunderstanding here.
>
> When I test, (1) I create one or more objects, (2) I assert against them and
> then (3) I potentially cleanup. At least the objects from step 1 are
> potentially interesting for documentation purposes as well. However, because
> tests are built in a completely different environment than examples are, and
> because they are not casually linked to the code they are about, we cannot
> exploit them to the maximum potential.
>
> The GT-Examples model offers a unification. This means that you can use the
> same mechanism for expressing both a test scenario and a documentation one.
> There is potential to be exploited here. For example, there is research that
> aims to take the all sorts of objects and try to infer types for code out of
> these. We could make this much simpler.
>
> I understand that this is a departure from the classic way of testing, but we
> have already expressed more than 1 thousand examples both from a
> documentation and from testing point of view, and it does seem to work.
>
>
>> However, they do not allow us to leverage the objects we create, and this
>> can be a tremendous resource for understanding systems.
>>
>> In our vision, examples should be everywhere and they should be explicitly
>> linked to the static code they exemplify. That is why the library comes with
>> an initial integration in existing tools (such as Nautilus, Spotter,
>> Inspector).
>>
>> The current solution works well and it is the result of several rewrites. We
>> think that the solution is complete in terms of features, but there are
>> still several things to improve and iterate on. To this end, I kindly ask
>> you to take a look at it while distinguishing between the concrete
>> implementation choice (e.g., the current extensive use of pragmas) and the
>> conceptual benefits of the approach.
>>
>> To ease the discussion, we put together a short documentation:
>>
>> Everytime I see a gtExample method on a class I first think, shouldn't this
>> go to a Help or Doc or Exampels class instead. I don't know how others
>> thinks about this but this is my first impression.
>> For example, the example on your page:
>>
>> FileSystem class >> #createFileOnDisk
>>
>> <gtExample>
>> <
>> description: 'Create a new file or override an existing file with some
>> contents. Open and close the stream safely'
>>>
>> ^
>> FileSystem workingDirectory / 'test.txt'
>>
>>
>> writeStreamDo: [ :stream | stream nextPutAll: self
>> comment ];
>> yourself
>>
>> Nice, now the user can see how to use FileSystem to create a file, open
>> *and* close the stream safely. But for me, this method does *not* belong to
>> the FileSystem class it just not make any sense to me, to have a method (*in
>> this class*) that opens and closes a stream. Even if this is just an
>> example, I would put it in a doc-page or a tutorial that can execute code.
>> But again , this is just my point of view.
>> I can not really explain it, having a example method on Morph or a widget ui
>> or a widget model class, that opens an example morph or widget in the world,
>> is for me something completly different and a valid example.
>> Having the same for the method above - is not, at least not as executable
>> code on the FileSystm class).
>
> I do not understand this last point.
>
> Just because an object does not have a visual appearance like a Morph does,
> does not make it uninteresting from an interaction point of view. The
> inspector already can provide the views. We also have the possibility of
> adding custom actions that can be installed as menu items. Even for a morph,
> I sometimes want to not look at its default appearance, but at its submorphs.
> Thus, I do not see the confusion.
>
> Nevertheless, the example does not have to be on the class side. It can be in
> any class you want and you can associate it with a subject. For example, all
> Roassal examples are in dedicated classes. There are hundreds of methods, so
> putting them all on the class side of a domain class would not work at all.
> We showed the example on the class side because that is a pattern that people
> used for a long time and it is a reasonable place when you have only a
> handful of examples. The rationale is that an example is a way to instantiate
> a class, so having it on the class side is not far fetched. Also, if you put
> it on the class side, you get by default the class as a subject for the
> examples it contains which is quite natural.
>
>
>> http://gtoolkit.org/doc/Examples/examples.html
>>
>> That being said, you can get it with the full GToolkit in Pharo 6.0:
>>
>> Is this based on the recent Pharo 6.0?
>>
>> GTExamplesReleaseTests are failing for me
>
> Yes, these are yellow.
>
>
>> Where did you test this? I get some Object>>#name deprecation warnings when
>> browsing for examples refering a class, for example on
>> class FileSystem and menu entry "Browse Examples refering FileSystem" (maybe
>> a Pharo 5.0 version?)
>
> I tested in Pharo 6.0 (60188), but we just got a problem that was reported
> related to Epicea and Martin is looking at it.
>
>
>> The example on the examples.html side isn't actually in the image right?
>
> Yes, it’s not there yet.
>
>
>> The browsing examples of a package (context menu on nautilus package pane)
>> does not work or I don't understand why it does not find any examples at all.
>> The World menu "Browse All Examples" does not contain the class FileSystem,
>> although FileSystem>>gtExampleZip is a gtExample, this is because
>> the example method is in an extension package, should all gtExample methods
>> be class extensions ? This is handled differently for different packages.
>
> Hmm. When I "Browse All Examples" I get a Nautilus with FileSystem
> class>>gtExampleZip in my image. But, indeed, in the latest GToolkit image,
> this example is missing.
>
>
>> The code pane context menu of a sendersOf Message browser is broken (debug
>> menu).
>
> I do not understand what menu item you refer to. Could provide a screenshot.
>
>>
>> From the web-side:
>>
>> "Furthermore, Nautilus, the World-Menu, all Rub-Text-Editors as well as
>> Spotter and Inspector provide access to retrieve, browse and navigate
>> examples from entities within the world"
>> I can not find it, not in inspector, Rub-Text-Editors, only in Nautilus.
>
> In Nautilus and in RubText you get it in the GT-Examples menu (Browse
> examples with subject …).
>
> The Inspector is not yet there, but we are adding it.
>
>
>> And the menu entries are ... unfortunate (see screenshot), what you put in,
>> the whole source as menu label?
>
> Hmm. Something is strange there. I get the name of a method, not the source
> code. What image are you in?
>
>
>> run "run the example and return its return-value"
>>
>> debug
>> "same run, but open debugger if the example fails”
>> returnValue
>> "the return-value"
>> Executing run/debug/inspect returnValue does not seem to make any different
>> when called from nautilus. It always gives
>> an inspector on a dictionary holding the gtexample and its gtexampleresult
>> (is this a bug?)
>
> Yes.
>
>
>> Glossary:
>> "Example: an example is a tiny stub object representing a GT-Example. It
>> holds the references to its dependencies, subjects and many other entities. "
>> What are "many other entities" this is a bit unclear
>
> Icon, Label, Provider, and others that you can add through custom annotations
> if you want to. This part is not yet clear.
>
>
>> "After-method: the after-method is a method that is performed right after
>> the example."
>> After the example ? I thought an example is a "tiny stub *object*", how can
>> it run?
>> How it is run after I run an example for inspection, after I closed the
>> inspector?
>
> Not yet. At this point, inspecting does not prevent triggering of the cleanup
> method, but it would certainly be interesting to get there.
>
> Cheers,
> Doru
>
>> http://gtoolkit.org/#install
>> (easiest is to download the ready made image for now)
>>
>> For those that are at ESUG, I will try to provide a short overview during
>> the Show Us Your Project session from today.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Doru
>>
>>
>> --
>> www.tudorgirba.com
>> www.feenk.com
>>
>> "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with."
>>
>>
>>
>> <gtexample_menu.png>
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
> www.feenk.com
>
> "No matter how many recipes we know, we still value a chef."
--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com
"Quality cannot be an afterthought."
