On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 6:39 AM, Peter Uhnák <i.uh...@gmail.com> wrote: >> I thought stackoverflow.com might be a good place for that. I was >> wrong. Having had my stackoverflow.com post attacked by aggressive >> incompetent anonymous down voters who were interested in down voting but >> possess no sense of humor or knowledge of Pharo or Smalltalk I think >> I understand now that stackoverflow.com is overrated. I don't think a >> site that actively encourages that kind of behavior deserves to benefit >> from my fix in any way. I would need a whole bunch of sympathizers to >> overturn the downvoting. I am not sure it is worth anybody's time.
In spite of Peter's feedback on your specific post, in general I agree. Several people in our community have found the same. I've only answered a few, not asked Pharo questions on SO, and some shot down by people for "reasons" that didn't seem true, and really discouraged me from participating. Mainstream languages seem to have a lower standard. If they could let it be moderated by a knowledgeable-topic-lieutenant aligned with their tough guidelines it would be more palatable - but as it stands I find the mail list, issue tracker and slack provide everything I need. >> >> I was so proud of myself. I thought I deserved some recognition. >> And I still do. Really glad to hear of your achievement. Thanks for sharing. Its a significant step to choose to attack the problem yourself rather than just report it (which also is good). I remember a similar sense of accomplishment and surprise with the degree I could dig deep into Pharo to help resolve issues, and a little trepidation waiting for the fix to be reviewed and integrated. I've gained a lot of knowledge from such feedback (and also btw, reviewing other peoples fixes, identifying the changes and tracing through that code before and after loading the slice.) >> I guess I would like to know how to get this fixed with my fix and get >> some visibility in the process. If there is any interest. > > > Explicitly asking for a recognition is going on a very thin ice. This is a bit tough against a newcomer finding their way into the community, feeling the exuberance of achievement (although a little tainted by the karma trade offer rather than a pure gift.) Although "repeated" requests for recognition won't fit in, lets recognize the effort to break the barriers to actively participate in improving Pharo. First posts and first contributions are as much social as technical barriers. Milan, For visibility, I'd be glad to hear you announce when your fix has been integrated. First integration is a significant milestone and nice sense of accomplishment that is good to share. Keep in mind though, you'd best work for your own enjoyment and satisfaction. Peer esteem is something that builds over a sustained period. btw, you may find this interesting... http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/homesteading/homesteading/ar01s13.html as well as some other foundational writings on open source... http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/ http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html > > You see, I've myself invested a ton of time into Pharo over past two years, > but I wouldn't even dream about asking for recognition, because there are > people who invested hundred and thousandfold times more and yet I barely > thank them myself. The latest release ( > http://pharo.org/news/pharo-5.0-released ) has hundred contributors… is it > fair that the list has side-by-side people that invested maybe an hour into > Pharo and next to him someone with thousands of hours? > > Visibility is not built by fixing a single issue… there are tens of fixes > every single week, but by continuous and systematic investment. > If and when people appreciate ones efforts is up to them. It certainly feels > great when someone thanks you or appreciates your efforts, but it (to me) > seems like a fragile ground to build your motivation upon. I contribute > because I enjoy it, because I enjoy the system and I want to see it grow, > because I want to learn and improve myself, and because I need the problems > fixed for my work… and all of it is internal motivation… if noone thanks > (which is the majority case for majority of bugs, because most people have > no idea that a bug even existed or was fixed)… then I don't care, because I > had fun and I made the system better. I actually feel guilty that I do not > contribute enough and that I merely reap the benefits of other people's > work. > > But of course I can only speak for myself, and you may feel different about > it. :) > > Peter > > > On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 10:30 PM, Milan Vavra via Pharo-users > <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> wrote: >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Milan Vavra <vavra_mi...@yahoo.com> >> To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org >> Cc: >> Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:50:27 -0700 (PDT) >> Subject: Re: Pharo 5 accented chars bug/regression >> I have debugged the issue and figured out how to fix it. I have seen >> it as an opportunity to learn Pharo debugging and I did learn a few >> tricks on the way. It took me 2 full days of debugging. >> >> It is a simple fix that works for all the Pharo versions on Windows >> that have this problem. Including Pharo 6 without Nicolai's fix applied. >> And it does not break any shortcuts as far as I can tell. >> >> I was so proud of myself. I thought I deserved some recognition. And I >> still do. It is not that someone else could not do it. I am sure that >> many people would be able to do that as well. But I did take the time >> to do it. And it worked. I kind of would have liked to be able to point >> to it and say "I fixed that". Two days is a significant commitment to one issue when you are learning new tools and environment. Its the sort of determination I'd value in the community. You are right to be proud. Anyone *could* do it. But you actually *did* do it. Unfortunately the nature of many systems and ours is that when they *just*work* they don't get a lot of notice. But you'll *know*. Sometimes its many months later that something I've worked on get a comment and I feel a quiet little thrill someone found my contribution useful. >> >> I understand that Nicolai is working on a fix of his own. The preliminary >> version for future Pharo 6.0 shows promise. With it, it is possible to >> type all the russian characters. Even with the fix it is not possible >> to type the Latin 'č' but I guess that can be fixed too. >> >> Back to business: >> >> Is there anyone out there using Pharo 3, 4, 5 or 6 on Windows that would >> benefit now from being able to type the characters č, Č, ě or Russian Ё, >> Л, М, Н, О, П in Workspace/Playground and System Browser? >> >> I guess I would like to know how to get this fixed with my fix and get >> some visibility in the process. If there is any interest. Not many fixes are integrated to older releases. In the short term, probably best for Pharo 3 & 4 to load your fix into their associated Inbox and advise here what the package is so that someone searching the problem months later can find it. For Pharo 5 & 6 open issues as Nicolai advised. It can feel a little awkward going through the process the first time, so keep plugging at it. After you change is integrated, it would be good if you can report any impediments you encountered in the process. Newcomers see things that the rest of us forget and unconsciously work around after doing it a few times. have fun, cheers -ben
