Hi Jimmie,
Nice to see you exploring bridges between Pharo and the external world
(that was my message about how I planned to contribute to pharo) and
thanks for the reference about the "Git: just say no" video from Hipp
(food for my rants with git possessed friends ;-) ).
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghtpJnrdgbo
My app uses fossil for storage and exports documents in plain text using
STON[2] format and with this combination I can have a remote storage
facility which is also pretty portable (just depending on Pharo and a
fossil portable binaries). Because I'm working with documents, STON
files can have long text inside, which is treated by fossil like
binaries and I had not have the time to explore some Sven's suggestions
to make it diff friendly. Also I would like some yaml import export on
Pharo (maybe via STON). Pharo + Yaml/STON + Fossil could bring us some
kind of free schema, human readable, external and distributed storage
system that can talk pretty well with the rest of the world.
Anyway I just want to point that are more people interested in simple
and external persistence using Hipps ideas and products. Maybe fossil +
STON can work for you also.
[2] https://github.com/svenvc/ston/blob/master/ston-paper.md
Keep us posted,
Offray
On 15/10/15 12:58, Jimmie Houchin wrote:
Hello,
I am working on a project for my wife. I initially thought I would
keep all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple project and Pharo
is great at persistence in the image.
But as I pursued the project it felt like I was reinventing the
database. So I thought why am I considering working so hard to
structure my classes and objects in such a way that I am in effect
writing my own database. All of this to avoid using a "real" database.
Part of my projects goals is to keep this project contained. I do not
want to require my wife or whomever I share this with to have to
install anything other than copy or unzip the Pharo folder. No
PostgreSQL or MongoDB installs. Keep it simple.
This is a goal I have for a lot of my ideas.
In my 20+ years of computing and Internet. I have seen lots of
applications come and go.
(and no, I don't have gray hair, even though I have children older
than probably half the people here.)
Many years ago, my wife and I made tremendous use out of Apple Works
and Microsoft Works. Apple at home and for me Microsoft at work. We
loved the ease and simplicity we could throw a database together and
just do stuff. It was great. In fact on my work PC I still use weekly
and sometimes daily a database I wrote in 1994. I am almost at the
point that Windows won't run this ancient MSWorks 4 database. I will
have to move my data.
Of course these tools aren't the greatest. They have significant
limitations, but despite the limitations they were very empowering.
My wife started to attempt something similar in LibreOffice but
LibreOffice wasn't so simple. It was confusing to her. I briefly
looked at LibreOffice but I am not convinced that it is the best or
right tool for the job.
So that sent me on an adventure to implement this in Pharo. In my
learning that I don't want to reinvent the database I have initially
settled on using SQLite. SQLite meets my requirements above. It is
embedded in my Pharo app and only requires including the database file
I create. Very portable and easy to install along with anything else
in Pharo.
SQLite seems like a very good match and complement to Pharo. A
trusted, reliable, external persistence that is as simple and portable
as is Pharo.
Richard Hipp creator of SQLite has several videos describing how he
believes SQLite should be used and should not be used.
SQLite: The Database at the Edge of the Network with Dr. Richard Hipp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jib2AmRb_rk
2014 SouthEast LinuxFest - Richard Hipp - SQLite as an Application
File Format
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y_ABXwYtuc
The videos are inspirational for using SQLite. I like what he says. I
encourage watching. I have watched these and others of his including
his anti-git video.
I am not knowledgeable about the use of git in Pharo, but I would be
interested if anybody has considered and knows the pros and cons of
using Fossil instead. I know, it wouldn't get us on GitHub. I may be
the only one. But that isn't a biggie for me.
TL;DW (didn't watch)
Use SQLite for Application File Format for persistence instead of a
(zipped) pile of files and you get many benefits. Examples in videos
as the wrong way, LibreOffice and git.
I think using SQLite like this for Pharo would be an excellent match.
We gain all the benefits of SQLite, transactions, ACID. In a tool that
is nicely (non)licensed, and is used and trusted generally by most all
of the software world.
For Pharo this buys us an excellent, simple, equally portable
persistence. It also buys us persistence that is trusted by people who
don't trust the image for their data. This could possible help with
people who explore Pharo but aren't comfortable about image only. Now
of course it won't help the Emacs or Vim, ... people.
I am exploring the idea of using Pharo and SQLite for what I would
have previously used Apple/MS Works database for. At first it would be
building the app/project for my wife. And during and after that
project generalize some things to make a better out of the box
solution for like projects.
Thoughts, opinions, ideas, wisdom. Any and all appreciated.
Thanks.
Jimmie
