Re: [Pharo-users] Which one should I download?

[btc]

Hi Robert, Thanks for your report.  A few general things that you are probably already familiar with - comments inline... Robert Shiplett wrote: regardless ... I did a sanity check on the contents of yesterday's latest.zip and hit a walkback I then did a sanity check on the latest 3.0 installer and hit a different walkback. At least on Win XP 3.1 that does not feel like Beta but like alpha, in my experience.  Unstable. I'm glad you limited that comment for XP.  My understanding is that the Beta phase began when features stopped being added and all 11000 daily run automated tests were green.  I've been using Pharo 3 on Windows 7 for two months and found it very stable.  However different environments can dig out corner cases, and anyway your UI problem is one that perhaps would not be found by the current automated testing.  I think none of the main developers use XP, so its understandable that something XP related might slip through to Beta phase.  Even though there might be a lot of XP installations out there, with last sale date circa 2008, end of mainstream support 2009 and extended support ending this April, I can appreciate that with limited resources XP is not a prime supported platform.  However hopefully now you've identified an issue, it can be resolved fairly quickly. Now I notice in EdgeGripMorph>>mouseMove: that there is the line...     target ifNil: [^self]. A simple fix might be adding a line...     lastMouse ifNil: [ ^self ]. Can you observe any negative consequences of that in operation? Sanity check for a Smalltalk image   open a browser    open a workspace   flip about in the browser  [across packages, classes, instance view, class view, implementors and callers Even though you are able to trigger this problem quite easily, the difficulty is that "flip about in the browser" is not a reproducible case.  You might be consistently performing some small unrecognized action that we happen to avoid.  These "unreproducible" cases (in the strictest sense of having a minimal step-wise set of actions guaranteed to reproduce the problem, rather than just frequency of occurrence) are difficult issues to troubleshoot remotely.  We will be relying on your intuition to help get this so it can be reproduced by other.  Until that time there is not much developers can do.   DoIt from workspace [never got here either time ; I would do smthg like a ProfStef or call up a browser ; no set routine as that way lies madness ] "No set routine" is a good way rattle-the-cage to identify new bugs, but once found , narrowing it a reproducible case is immensely useful. AND while doing the above, flip between windows, max /min [ I have been doing this for years ... it takes only a couple of minutes - it is not a step-wise protocol .... that would result in missing things that you wouldn't expect - and it is in NO way exhaustive ... it is just a sanity check ( Do you know what year it is? Who is the President of USA ?  What is today's date ? How did you get here ? Do you know why you were [arrested/admitted/removed from the aircraft/booted outa the bar ... ) ] Hunch ONLY : Likely culprit ... each time I also opened for future use (and to have some frames open    Metacello browser    the 2 help items off the main popup menu (one general; one Tutorials - a new user is likely to do so ) Hunches have a lot going for them, but if its hard for you to make it "reproducible" then its double-hard for other to reproduce it so they can address it. cheers -ben I suspect one of the latter, based on Last Class Changed for that image ... but that will be my hunch for now ... ciao r        On 26 February 2014 07:18, Esteban Lorenzano <esteba...@gmail.com> wrote: On 26 Feb 2014, at 11:30, Robert Shiplett <grshipl...@gmail.com> wrote: "BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community." This still rankles ... I have been a Smalltalker since long before Squeak and have been using Pharo since Seaside first ran on it - if not earlier than that ... I also received from another on the mail list "and in fact I cannot reproduce it." "And in fact" is such a wicked rhetorical move ... in a game I have lost all interest in playing now that I am retired. it is not.  it was just saying that I tried your problem and I could not reproduce it. It was not to been rethorical or anything, just pointing a fact.  I’m interested (and is also my job) on having the best and stable version of Pharo possible.  I’m so interested that I was at 10min from leaving a my house to take an 10h fly and I sit to try to reproduce your problem.  So, please… do not misinterpret the contents of the mail. It was an attempt to have an understanding of the problem, in an effort to help. An effort, btw, that sometimes is not easy, because we do not have all the elements to make the diagnostic…  It may take me a lot of effort to track these 2 bugs down as far as "Follow these steps to reproduce" .. but then I am not a CONSORTIUM member ( I used to pay big bucks for Smalltalk, back in the day ) so may be I am too far outside the "whole community".... btw. The community is here. In this list. Around the list.  Consortium is for companies willing to contribute with some money support (and so is the association for individuals), because things cost effort and effort implies time and time implies money.  We always try to solve the problems of everybody (we, the community, including yourself), because that’s the best for all… so do not put yourself outside in a way we never say/act/even think about.  We want to help you.  I will spare you my plot's view of the term "stable" and the notion of stability ... and will be sure I rename key files as I go along ... [ why are we still having to rename files such as these when able to run multiple images in the same dir ? ] Your pov about stability can be ok. What is not ok is such amount of negativity over a simple fact: we has not been able to reproduce your problem (but you avoid the other obvious fact: we tried to reproduce it. So we did not ignored you). Again, I try to help, as everybody in the community… but such a negative over-reaction is probably just compared to my own overeacted answer :) Esteban     ciao On 26 February 2014 04:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <s...@stfx.eu> wrote: On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshipl...@gmail.com> wrote: > I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI >>update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for > receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil > > I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back. > > Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ? I can't reproduce this either, please be more specific. BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community. Of course, it is a complex piece of code with lots of UI and system interactions, so issues are always possible. Sven