Hi Norbert, I'm answering inside your email. If you'd like more explanations about some of the points, please just tell me. I'm also forwarding to Amber ML.
On May 14, 2013, at 5:37 PM, Norbert Hartl <norb...@hartl.name> wrote: > Hi Nico, > >> I do have one question: what was your experience with Amber? >> > > as an overall statement I would say it was a pleasure to use amber to develop > the app. The initial setup until the class browser opens is easy. Learning > how to create packages and knowing that code persistence is based on packages > is also quite ok because amber includes a WebDav Server that can be started > from the downloaded amber repo. So no big problems in starting. > > Thinks that go less smooth: > > - the web app I'm developing is checked into git. Amber puts all files (js > and st) in the same directory. This makes managing files in version control > system a bit cumbersome. One approach that worked for me and others is to ignore the .js files and recompile the .st files of your project using a git hook when you pull. > - all code is put in the same directory. The amber code checked out from the > repository is in the same place as the code that I produced myself. Again you > need to do additional steps to do to clean it up You can now deal with that. loadAmber() takes additional optional arguments to deal with project paths. > - tools for combining code are missing. That is not a big problem because a > simple cat on the console can solve this but would be nice not have to. bin/amberc does that. That's actually how the WebDAV of Amber is compiled into one file :) > - I prepared two different locations on my web server for the same app. One > that is used to develop (the WebDav server access it) and one where only the > combined javascript source code is used. This is needed to test the target > deployment. Something that could ease this would be wonderful > > What keeps me from using it in every project: > > - The startup times for amber can be quite huge. All the class initialization > is a lot of stuff that burns CPU cycle. On an iphone you don't notice really > but on the Nexus 7 tablet it takes 2-4 seconds for initialization and the > first page to appear. This is a not a problem for desktop browsers but for > mobile ones where I find amber extremely good for. I only used amber in pre > pre 1.0 versions and I know there have been optimizations that I didn't test, > yet. The latest stable release of Amber should be *a lot* faster to load. > > And the annoying "You didn't ask for but I add it anyway wishlist": > > - I need to test Helios because I think it solves a lot of issues with the > current browser. I don't know how it is supposed to work that you have a > second window with the IDE that accesses a page. But I'm sure it works > flawlessly or I misunderstood it from the screenshots yes, it does :) > - retarget files on the disc. I would like to have different paths on disc > for separate packages. You can also do that now with loadAmber() > - amber using websockets to connect to a backend pharo server. This can be > used for comfortable code management, amber support for state transport > client->server and server->client and to replicate console log to the pharo > transcript (or whatever). This is important on mobile devices where sometimes > you cannot access the browser console. ok, that's an interesting point :) > - it would be fine to have support for obfuscation. It is not only for hiding > code but also for making it smaller thus saving bandwidth and startup times. > This could be the case if the produced javascript code would be work with > google closure compiler. Even better would be to have visitor for AST/IR to > make it even more effective/less dangerous. it does work with Google Closure Compiler, there's an option in bin/amberc too for that ;) > Cheers, Nico > Norbert > > Am 14.05.2013 um 15:32 schrieb Nicolas Petton <petton.nico...@gmail.com>: > >> Nico >> >> >> On May 14, 2013, at 11:37 AM, Norbert Hartl <norb...@hartl.name> wrote: >> >>> I think my last post of this message fell into the time the old mailing >>> list dies. So here it is again >>> >>> --- >>> >>> We (@2denker in cooperation with a local university) built a monitoring >>> tool for disaster scenario recovery rehearsals. Several times a year >>> universities, red cross, THW und hospitals are planning a rehearsal >>> together. For this an environment is prepared for a simulated disaster (car >>> accidents, explosions in civil areas, …). The local environment is prepared >>> to look real as well as film make-up artist prepare people for injuries >>> (broken legs, open head, …). >>> The rehearsal should improve the coordination of several hospitals, >>> firemen…as well as the quickest possible treatment for the injured. >>> >>> One important part of the rehearsal is monitoring of what happens. This is >>> achieved by installing a local position system and using our tool. Every >>> injured person gets a wireless tablet. On the tablet there are UI elements >>> that indicate treatment done to them. Whenever a doctor comes visiting the >>> injured person activates the corresponding UI button. The events are >>> transmitted to a server and are prepared for another analysis software. The >>> tablet enables the HQ to make contact to individual persons or groups. The >>> tablet measures times of needed treatments and instructs the injured to be >>> dead if measurements weren't taken in time. >>> >>> Technically it is done in smalltalk solo. >>> >>> The server is a pharo image. It has >>> >>> - web admin interface with complex forms for managing injuries, injured, >>> groups, etc. For this we used seaside because it is best suited for this >>> job. Forms are done with magritte, magritte-bootstrap. The interface also >>> displays the live incoming events and other data >>> - a static file server that delivers static resources to client tablets >>> - a websocket connector that is used by the clients to connect to the server >>> - a http handler to export data to other analysis tools >>> >>> The client is done with amber smalltalk. It >>> >>> - loads the web page containing amber from the server >>> - connects back to the server >>> - downloads a UI spec for the injured using the tablet to display >>> personalized UI elements >>> - stores events on the tablet in case the injured is offline >>> - measures times to instruct the injured >>> >>> If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask. >>> >>> Norbert >> >> -- >> Nicolas Petton >> http://www.nicolas-petton.fr >> >> > > -- Nicolas Petton http://www.nicolas-petton.fr
