Nicely said 👏
> Le 15 mai 2020 à 17:39, Jimmie Houchin <[email protected]> a écrit : > > >> On 5/15/20 5:26 AM, Shaping wrote: >> I don’t understand the split. It looks silly. Maybe someone can explain >> the split in terms of technical/architectural advantages, if any exist. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Shaping > I began using Squeak about 20 years ago. And then Pharo when it started. I > will explain as best as I can. > > The differences do have bearing on architecture and technical things but at > the beginning the basis of it all is philosophy. Differences in what you want > Squeak/Pharo to be, where you want it go. > > Squeak is from Apple Smalltalk. Smalltalk is not simply a language, but began > as an OS, an environment and a language. It ran directly on the hardware. > Then Smalltalk was ported to operating systems. But still took with it a very > OS like environment and world view. It was the world. > > This was very much Squeak. Squeak was the world. It was an amazing and > interesting environment. It could play mp3s, had MIDI capabilities. It was a > very interesting multimedia environment. Bright, colorful, creative. But it > was also a very productive programming environment to build whatever you > wanted to build. > > All of the people involved in Squeak, loved the productivity of the Smalltalk > language and the live environment. You had debates about "Pink plane" vs > "Blue plane". What was the direction of the community and the artifact > Squeak. There were two large communities with differing opinions on > direction. > > Alan Kay > The Computer Revolution Hasn't Happened Yet OOPSLA 97 Keynote (VPRI 0719) > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYT2se94eU0 > > """ > https://pab-data.blogspot.com/2007/03/what-colour-do-you-like-your-objects.html > In Alan Kay's keynote speech at OOPSLA in 1997 he talks about a blue plane > and a pink plane. The pink plane represents ideas which are an incremental > improvement of existing ideas. The blue plane which runs orthogonal to the > pink represents revolutionary ideas that break the old way of doing things, > setting you off in a new direction. > """ > > Many people had projects and ideas which were very able to be done in Squeak, > but did not want the entire OS-like image. ... > > Maybe I want a web server. I don't need to play multimedia files. Have a > GUI. etc. > Insert your own application here. > > People wanted to build businesses around what they could do with Squeak. > > The Pink plane community wanted to begin to clean up Squeak. Break it up into > parts which could be reloaded. It wanted a much more modular environment > which allowed you to build the image you want for the purpose you intend. > > The Blue plane community didn't see any problems with the way it was. They > liked it and still do. It fit what they wanted to do with Squeak/Smalltalk. > Frequently more research oriented and less business oriented. > > Then in the midst of all this you have overlap in individuals who understand > both. You also had personality differences and disagreements which developed > over years. > > Eventually the Pink plane community forked and created Pharo. The > foundational community of Squeak (Blue plane) did not want to make the > changes the Pink plane community wanted or required. > > Pharo is now 12 years or so into its journey. It is not easy losing weight > and still keep working. But that is the goal of Pharo. Keep reducing until > the entire system can be built up from a base image. And when it gets there. > We don't have a problem with from that foundation, being able to build it > back up into a Squeak-like image. > > I have numerous projects which I am doing in Pharo. One is a trading > application. I personally want as little in my image as possible which does > not have to do with my trading application. It desires to be as fast as > possible, run without failure, and as memory and cpu efficient as I can make > it to be in Pharo. I could make and run this application in Squeak. But it > would include much that I don't need and don't want. And that is the case in > Pharo currently as well. But Pharo has its philosophy and its direction that > it is moving towards. At some point in time my trading application will what > I want it to be with very little unused code in the image. That might not be > until Pharo 10+. I don't know. But there is a vision within Pharo for people > to build such applications. > > I have not used Squeak in years. And nothing I write here is meant to speak > badly about Squeak. I like the Squeak community. They are full of great > people. And I do not know how accurate what I write is to the current Squeak. > My apologies for any inaccuracies or errors. > > Pharo in general is much more pro-business. It is an explicit goal of Pharo. > https://pharo.org/about > https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/30434/PharoVision.pdf > > Both websites give you a feel for who the community is and the orientation of > their goals. > > As much as re-unification would be nice. I don't know that it will happen. At > a minimum, not until the Squeak community could build Squeak from a Pharo > kernel image. Then it would be possible. But I don't think likely. > > This is just my generalizations in an effort to answer your question. There > are people who are in both communities. Both communities in general attempt > to cooperate when we can. Both are communities with friendly, amazing people. > And both communities have people who have been doing this for a very long > time, and that is a very good thing. > > Both are completely open source projects which will allow you to do whatever > you want within your abilities and resources. > > Basically it is simply this. Different visions for the direction of the > project and the pursuit of those directions for an extended period of time. > This email is an simplification of a lot discussions and debates over a > period of years which finally lead to a fork of Squeak. > > Hope this helps. > > Jimmie Houchin > > > > > > > >
