Arithmetic changes proposed in Squeak have no relationships to VM.
On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 2:09 PM Shaping <[email protected]> wrote: > There is an issue about incorporating Squeak arithmetic changes in Pharo: > > https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/3322 > > > > I start to understand what could be done and could not find time to do the > changes. > > You are welcome if you want to help. > > > > > > Arithmetic speed is important if most of one’s work is math and modeling. > > > > I want to help, but need to port first from VW, and I’m trying to choose > Squeak or Pharo. Both have speed problems. Squeak has fewer, but Pharo > could be much faster with broad use of Spec2. > > > > *Would reintegrating Squeak and Pharo development make more sense?* > > > > This change would effectively create more devs willing to work on any > problem. This change would also prevent fracturing of feature-sets across > the two Smalltalks from happening in the first place. > > > > Why can’t the OSVM be a single, unforked, maxed-out VM with all the best > and fastest features working in Squeak and Pharo? *Why did the split > happen?* It looks like a bad use of energy in a community that is small > and needs to use its human resources efficiently. > > > > Squeak and Pharo GUI styles are different. So be it. Can’t the GUI > frameworks and conventions be separated in the same image, and configured > as desired in GUI sections of Settings? > > > > > > Shaping > > > > > > On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 12:48 PM Shaping <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi all. > > > > > > Squeak 5.3: > > Time millisecondsToRun: [ 100000 factorial ] 6250 > > > > Pharo 8: > > Time millisecondsToRun: [ 100000 factorial ] 7736 > > > > Why the difference? > > > > Squeak 5.3 release notes describe arithmetic improvements. Nice. I > crunch very big numbers, and these improvements therefore have value. Why > would they not be included in OSVM (forked or not) and the basic class-set > for both Squeak and Pharo? > > > > Playing with Squeak 5.3, I’ve noticed that the GUI is snappier. Browser > ergonomics are better too (for me at least), but that can be fixed/tuned in > either environ to suit the developer. (Still that’s some work I prefer not > to do.) Pharo GUIs are now generally slower, except for the Launcher, > which is delightfully quick because it is written in Spec2. I presume that > all Pharo GUIs will eventually (ETA?) be written in Spec2 and that Pharo > will then be quick in all its GUIs. The obvious question is: Will Squeak > be improving GUI look/behavior and speed with Spec2? If not, can I load > Spec2 into Squeak so that I can do new GUI work there? > > > > Both Squeak and Pharo have slow text selection. Pick any word in any > pane, and double click it to select it. When I do this, I sense a 75 to > 100 ms latency between the end of the double click and the selection > highlight appearing on the word. I thought I’d entered a wormhole. So I > did the same experiment in VW 8.3.2, VS Code, and Notepad, and all three > showed undetectable latencies. This matters to me. I’m trying to port > from VW to Pharo or Squeak (for a really long time now), and can’t push > myself past the text-selection delay problem. Can text-selection speed be > improved to the level of VW’s? Can someone sketch the algo used and/or > point me to the right class/methods. > > > > The Squeak debugging experience step-to-step is much quicker. The > latencies in Pharo after button- release are very long. I estimate 100 to > 150 ms. That’s too long for me to work productively. I lose my mental > thread with many of those delays, and have to restart the thought. It’s a > serious problem, caused mostly by acclimation to no detectable latency for > many years (Dolphin and VW have quick GUIs). Is speeding up the Pharo > debugger with Spec2 a priority? I can’t think of a better GUI-related > priority for Pharo. > > > > > > Not speed-related: > > > > - How can I load additional fonts into Squeak? Pharo does this with the > font dialog’s Update button. > > > > - Where in the Squeak and Pharo images can I change mouse-selection > behavior to be leading-edge? Some of the Squeak panes have this; others > don’t. I want leading-edge action in all panes, and wish the feature were > in Preferences/Settings. > > > > > > > > Shaping > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Serge Stinckwic > > h > > https://twitter.com/SergeStinckwich > > > -- Serge Stinckwic h https://twitter.com/SergeStinckwich
