On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 11:14 AM, ray joseph <r...@aarden.us> wrote: > Matt, > > > > Thank you for your insightful view. I do not have a design for any of my > design opportunities. This is one reason I was looking for a design tool. > I have many work processes that are inter related, generated by different > groups that must transcribe data from each others artifacts. I do have > Visio but I have never used it for this purpose. Since one of my objectives > is to learn about db design, maybe I can find some training material using > Visio. I wonder if Visio will generate SQL. If I recall, only the > enterprise version of Visio produces SQL, so I would like to find a FOS tool > for this. A tool and associated tutorial would be great. > > > As was mentioned earlier and pencil and paper is a great tool to start with. The first several drafts of my database were done with graph paper and a pencil. I find it much quicker in the beginning to do it this way then use a computer and make changes to it through a program. When you get a design almost nearly complete then I would recomend a computer program. If you go the route of Viso there are templates for databases built in so this may save you some time. As far as code generation goes I have no idea as I prefer to do all my generation by hand.
> BTW, I do use Notepad++. I have used gnome.org/dia, but I find it much > weaker than Visio. I did not realize that PHP admin required a web server, > but I have recently installed Apache for SVN. I looked at PHP admin even > though my preference is Python. I have also looked at Maestro but have had > a similar problem with tutorials. > PHP is a server side language and thus is usually not run from the commandline like ruby or python, it is generally run through a web server such as apache or IIS. > > > Thank you for the link to the ‘docs’ site. I have been there many times > over the past couple of years but now I see it in a new light (I’m slow). > > > When you hand code SQL with Notepad++, how do you launch the code? > > There are several ways to launch the code. I use the PHPPGAdmin and load the file into the GUI and launch it that way. I haven't really gotten that far into my development yet where I need to do this on a large scale, for now that method works for me. I am sure there are other ways to do it through the PG commandline interface. > > > I really appreciate your efforts. > > > > ray > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* urlu...@gmail.com [mailto:urlu...@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Matt > *Sent:* Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:19 PM > *To:* ray joseph > *Subject:* Re: [GENERAL] Looking for Suggestion on Learning > > > > I too am in a similar situation. My company currently uses M$ Access and > the solution is no longer viable and needs to be dealt with. Form what I > have been reading and learning the last few weeks trying to compare Access > and PG is like comparing a go-kart and a race car. They both do the same > thing more or less but the race car is capable of much more but also needs > more attention. I am assuming that you already have a structural design for > your database, tables, keys etc. If not this is a good place to start and > is where I am currently at in my project. > > On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 9:22 PM, ray joseph <r...@aarden.us> wrote: > > > > On Saturday, February 05, 2011 9:30:13 am ray wrote: > > > I have built a few databases with MS Access and I would like to learn > > > how to use pgsql. I have found some examples but they have been too > > > complex to follow or to abstract with no specific details. > > > > Use the online documentation at http://www.postgresql.org/docs/ for a > basic tutorial on how to create tables, queries, and the like. The docs go > much further in detail then that but this is a good place to start. It > gives real examples of working with tables that are easy to follow and > it doesn't require previous knowledge. > > > > > > > > > I would like to find a simple example that would take me from an open > > > source design tool to a simple method to implement the design. > > > > What do you mean by a design tool? Are you looking for a program to help > you map out the table structure of your db? Are you looking for a GUI to > access your db and modify it? I am using Viso to create my maps at work > right now but you may want to check out Dia http://projects.gnome.org/dia/, > it is a good piece of software but I haven't used it for this purpose yet. > When you install PG it comes with the GUI PGAdmin that gives you basic > control over some aspects of your db and allows you to implement various > things. I am using PHPAdmin myself, as this project is entirely based on > the net and I also have a fondness for php. This can be acquired through > the stackbuilder app included with the single file installer for PG. It > does require you to run a webserver though, so this may not be the route you > wish to take. As far as building the db itself I hand code the SQL in > notepad++ http://notepad-plus-plus.org/. I am not a big fan of IDE's for > small scale or single file projects so this editor is great. It provides a > tabbed interface and has syntax highlighting for many of the > most common languages and is fairly lightweight. > > > > > > > > > I would like to find a simple guide, tutorial or example and will > > > appreciate any help. > > > > Being more specific as to what you are looking to learn may help people to > suggest the right guide for you. I have had great luck here in the last few > weeks with recommended books and articles. > > > > > > > > > ray > > > > It will be difficult to find a simple drop in replacement for what you > had > > with > > Access. The closest thing I can think of is OpenOffice/LibreOffice Base > > (http://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Database_1) and that is not as well > > integrated. Most Open Source development tend to use chains of tools, > > admin/creation --> driver/middle layer --> GUI design, with each aspect > > handled by a different program. I tend to handle admin/creation with text > > files run through psql. I work with Python so my database driver is > > > psycopg2. This n turn gets used by a framework. For desktop apps I use > > > Dabo > (http://dabodev.com/). > > Since the final output is determined by mix and match it is hard to find > a > > 1-2-3 tutorial. My suggestion is to make a list of your needs and work > > bck from there: > > > > 1) What OS(s) do I want to deploy on? > > 2) What programming language(s) do I want to work with? > > 3) Where do I want to deploy, desktop/Web? > > 4) What do I want to build, simple SOHO apps .... enterprise apps? > > > > With answers to these questions it would be possible to narrow the field > a > > bit. Unfortunately, it is one of those good news/bad news situations. > > Good news, Open Source is about a variety of choices. Bad news, Open > > Source is about a variety of choices. > > > > -- > > Adrian Klaver > > adrian.kla...@gmail.com > > Adrian, > > Thank you for the clarifications. I would like to address the guiding > questions you presented: > > 1) What OS(s) do I want to deploy on? Windows, right now XP. > 2) What programming language(s) do I want to work with? Python. > 3) Where do I want to deploy, desktop/Web? Desktop at first. > 4) What do I want to build, simple SOHO apps .... enterprise apps? SOHO > at > first. > > My responses represent what I expect a learning path to take. Although I > will probably not be programming for web or enterprise, what I build may be > a prototype for such. I am not looking for the tools to build the big > apps, > I just want to learn the basics, or more important right now, the simple. > > Please help me understand what you mean by " I tend to handle > admin/creation > > with text files run through psql." > > This is the commandline shell that allows you to interact with the > database. It is from here that you are able to create tables, views, and > submit queries, among other things. It is akin to the Windows command > prompt, although instead of giving commands to windows you are giving them > to PG. > > > > I looked at Dabo and it looks like it is for developing applications. Is > there a tool for designing a database? > > > > Please be specific, do you mean creating a logical design of the structure > or do you mean implementing the design such as creating tables and inserting > data. > > > Ray > > > > > -- > Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) > To make changes to your subscription: > http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general > > >
