John Celio wrote:
You only have to do it once.
not actually true... but never mind right now....
In all the more-recent Optios I used to sell, you only had to set the
Memory options once and they'd stick. Whatever it was that allowed
the camera to keep time when you changed the battery also held those
memory functions.
There is a program option in the Canon p&S that gives you two places to
save specific settings... then when you remember
what you set and want you can just turn to that on the dial:-)
What I meant was when I was shooting with the W60 I just wanted it to
remember the most recent setting I had the next
time I turned on the camera - but that could change each time I turned
off the camera... didn't want them to stick across
any change I made the very next time I shot... I don't have the w60
manual anymore, so I can't prove it.
I just want it to hold on to the most recent settings when I turn off
the camera... or when the timer turns it off...
You have to remember, P&S cameras are not made to appeal to advanced
photographers like us. They're made for lowest-common-denominator
users, and as such have to be as simple and user friendly as possible.
Alas, they are not in any way "simple and user friendly"
A true point and shoot is a throw away camera that has a fixed focal
length and speed and DOF....
True P&S? That's BS. What you describe is a single-use P&S camera, a
bare-bones snapshot-producing piece of plastic. Point-and-shoot
cameras are any cameras that are primarily fully automatic, small,
cheap, and lacking interchangeable lenses. There is no rule that says
they have to be simple, so anything from a single-use camera to a
Leica CM to your former W60 can fall into this category.
John - a true point and shoot is a pinhole camera or a holga... :-)
Think of the real words "point " Shoot" - it means you can pick up the
instrument and without any thing other than
turning it on ,if it has batteries, it takes the picture . My point
was these newfangled ones are filled with choices for
the operator -I understand that in today's parlance that the category
of cameras called "point and Shoot' is what
you describe.
The w60,for instance, comes with a book that has over 100 pages! They
want you to read the whole
book first!
I don't think any manufacturer truly expects anyone to actually read a
user's manual.
Maybe that is why they are so poorly written and overly complex.
This is why every camera you will buy these days is set to be usable
right out of the box.
This isnt always true either - you either need a sales person to show
you where to put the battery, put the card, turn on the camera, etc....
I'm talking about selling these things to complete novices...
This is also why the cameras will reset to these default settings
when you shut them off. They tell you to read the manual so they
don't get sued when someone tries to cram a AA battery in the SD slot.
Well the elaborateness of it is probably partly due to that mentality
for sure! My favorite of which is the words on the
cardboard sun protector for your windshield when you park your car that
says "remove before driving"
I have several friends who thought they would like digital for the
obvious reasons -- no film charges, ease
of getting prints, fits in your pocket, SIMPLE TO USE.... the Z10 and
The W60 both have tons of confusing
choices aimed at us, actually - they want to put it all in one.
For better or worse there has been a camera feature arms race going on
ever since digital cameras became affordable, and this arms race
causes more features to be crammed into smaller and smaller packages.
Of course - annoying
The nice thing, though, is that:
You Don't Have To Understand All The Features To Use The Camera!
John , right, any fool can pick the thing up, point and and click -
doesn't mean they are doing photography.
Forget taking movies, who cares about digital zoom settings or silly
color filters. Point and shoot and look at the photo you've just
taken. Nice and easy, because the camera is set to automatic.
Yes but -- of course I'm not writing from the perspective of a novice -
and my little "review" of the W60 and where it
screws up as far as I could see, or where it didn't suit me, was
addressed the list where the majority of readers are
serious about photography - I'm comparing the W60 and the z10 to the
canon powershot I have that has wonderful features..
I'm not trying to compare a point and shoot to a "real" camera :-)
Pentax and other companies have to assume that someone taking snapshots
is going to want the camera to perform exactly the same way every time
they use it, so they make the camera reset itself unless someone like
you tells it not to.
No one over 30, does, I guarantee..... these cameras are designed for
people who grew up with computers
and like cutsey pie little icons... they may know nothing about
lighting, timing, composing, but they do seem to
like to have lots of little buttons to push...
This is so not true. I used to sell cameras to people from the local
retirement community as well as the local high schools and everyone in
between. Every customer had their preferences, of course, but there
was no indication that older customers had issues with "cutsey pie
little icons", nor was there any indication that younger customers
knew nothing about the skills you mentioned. Matter of fact, younger
users were more likely to know photography than their parents and
grandparents, in my experience.
and how many years of experience is that?
Pentax tried to make a camera especially to appeal to EVERYONE... and
that is what is screwed up.
Perhaps you should try a camera from the Optio E series. They're the
simplest cameras Pentax makes. They take AA batteries, the power
button is miles from the shutter button, and it has the
SUPER-user-friendly "Green Mode" button. Sounds like it would be
right up your alley, except it doesn't have a viewfinder. I think
you're SOL in that regard.
john geez - you are really being very condescending now... I dont
know what SOL is.
Lets go back to whyi even started this -- I got a bit of money for my
birthday... I thought it would be nice to have
a tiny camera that I could use for just taking information shots, if you
will - that I could carry with me for emergencies -
even as a second camera on an event job ... I was stretching my dollars
to do it... I can't really justify owning one at all...
That being said, I played with it for a couple of days - noted what I
didn't like about it and thought I'd share that with
the list... that's all...
as luck would have it is a damn good thing I took both back and got the
money... other more pressing things needed
to be paid for.
I fell for the bells and whistles in the ads ... liked that it was
waterproof - and it fit in your pocket... I'm sure there
is an (expensive) P&S out that would do what I want'ed it to and weigh
little and if i were independently wealthy
I'd search more - but I'm not...
I did want to tell list folk what I thought were poor performance
things about it ... I won't count that it I can't hold
it steady at all - although that would matter to some specific people on
the list...
The whole world of technology today is a disaster in terms of user
friendliness - ironic at a time when
there are more and more baby boomers or old folk....
The "old folk" demographic is not a major one for tech manufacturers,
despite the perception of your age group being large and influential.
The people buying stuff are much younger than you, thus there is
little incentive for products to conform to your needs. Your age
group doesn't have nearly as much influence as the 18-35 demographic.
Besides, the Kodak EasyShare system is already targeted at "old folks"
and technophobes, so that niche is probably as filled as it's going to
get.
John, and you don't see some thing wrong with that???
and what about the 36 to 50 year olds?
It was kind of my point... it is the consumerism of it that is
revolting... I'm not a technophobe , of course, I was running
a computer back in the 1960's when they took up whole rooms and I made
most of my livelihood working in Market Research
tabulating surveys and designing questionnaires.
The "youth factor" has been there all along. That is a mistake.
no one I know, regardless of age,
consider the Tv Controls of today are
better , for instance
*shrug* I dunno, I can always figure them out.
Trial-and error works for me, but then I don't have cable anymore and
only use my TV for DVDs and the Wii.
See, this is why I tell everyone I know to buy potentially-complicated
things in a specialty store.
hey, you cant get much better than B&H...
That way you AT LEAST have a salesperson that can teach you how to use
the item when you buy it, and help you out later when you get stuck.
Also, it keeps good people in business. A few of my former camera
shop coworkers just got laid off today from ANOTHER camera store
that's likely closing soon, this time in San Francisco.
John it is scary out there - But I should not even have considered
buying a point and shoot for $231 to start with.
well I didnt mean to blab on so - I'm home sick with a cold, makes me
extra gabby, but I couldn't let this go...
It all just started with my disappointment in something I thought would
work nicely from the press and salesperson
and recommendations here - but I couldn't justify spending the money -
so in a way, I'm glad that I didn't love it!
ann
John
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