Very true. Saturn did well initially on the strength of its feel-good marketing and rebel image, but reality soon caught up with it. Blame Hal Riney. Paul -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Adam Maas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Saturn was a market failure and the changes were driven by its > effective elimination from viability by 2003. It is now effectively > the replacement for Oldsmobile in market segment and is selling far > better than it ever did when semi-independant. > > -Adam > > On 1/8/08, P. J. Alling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That's what Saturn was supposed to be, a self sufficient laboratory for > > engineering and process design. Which is why the original Saturn was a > > completely new platform, unrelated to anything else in the GM line, and > > the factory was built from the ground up with special labor rules. That > > plan lasted about as long as Disney's original concept for Epcot, which > > was supposed to be a planned community of tomorrow, then they discovered > > that they'd have to deal with real people... > > > > Adam Maas wrote: > > > The Sky's interesting, as it's a straight rebadge of the Opel > > > Speedster (Same styling and drivetrain) unlike the fairly extensively > > > modified Solstice (which is based on the Speedster, but not > > > identical). > > > > > > The other Saturns are Opels except for the Vue, and therefore german > > > designed. Nobody's got the money or infrastructure to do completely > > > independant engineering (even Holden, the most independant of the GM > > > marks, uses Chevy drivetrains). > > > > > > -Adam > > > > > > On 1/7/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >>> The Saturn division originally built very good little cars, a great > > >>> first cut on subcompacts. GM simply starved them of money until they > > >>> could be made over in the image of the parent company. Now Saturns are > > >>> just plastic clad GM extrusions. They build keepers but the fish keeps > > >>> rotting from the head... > > >>> > > >> My dad got one of the very first Saturn coupes in California, and for > > >> the > rest > > >> of the '90s my little brothers and I were big Saturn fans (we were young > and > > >> impressionable, what can I say). > > >> > > >> Every year we went to the San Francisco International Auto Show, and I > > >> saw > the > > >> evolution of the Saturn brand from the beginning. When GM started > > >> drawing > them > > >> in closer, they just went downhill. Quality, looks, everything. > > >> > > >> The only interesting & unique thing Saturn has put out this decade was > > >> the > 2001 > > >> special edition yellow coupe, which I thought was just beautiful, > especially > > >> with the black & yellow leather interior. My mom got one, but with > > >> plain > black > > >> cloth interior (boooooring). The other product of theirs that I like is > the > > >> Sky roadster, but it's just another GM clone, like the rest of Saturn's > cars > > >> now. > > >> > > >> I was very sad when my dad sold his little red Saturn, but it was > > >> getting > old > > >> and he needed something he could haul gardening supplies with. Now he's > > >> driving a Honda CR-V, and I suspect future car purchases that my parents > make > > >> will be Japanese as well. My parents just don't trust the American car > > >> companies anymore. > > >> > > >> Me, I'd give anything for a new Dodge Challenger. > > >> > > >> John Celio > > >> > > >> > > >> The Saturn Score: > > >> Dad: original '91 SC-1 Coupe, now drives a Honda CR-V > > >> Mom: 2001 yellow special edition SC-2 > > >> Bro 1: 2000 (?) SL-2 > > >> Bro 2: 2004/5 Ion > > >> Me: yet to own a Saturn, much less drive one. My family's cars are all > manual > > >> transmission, which I don't drive well enough to risk ruining a clutch > > >> or > two. > > >> Plus, I'm not a GM fan, and currently loathe my little Chevy. > > >> Case in point: http://www.neovenator.com/2008/01/is-time-to-bitch.html > > >> > > >> -- > > >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > >> [email protected] > > >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > I am personally a member of the Cream of the Illuminati. > > A union with the Bavarian Illuminati is contemplated. > > When it is complete the Bavarian Cream Illuminati will rule the world > > -- Anonymous > > > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > [email protected] > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > > follow > the directions. > > > > > -- > M. Adam Maas > http://www.mawz.ca > Explorations of the City Around Us. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > [email protected] > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions.
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