Ok let's not be so subjective. For instance the Pentax FA 135/2.8 MTF graphs indicate that wide open at F2.8 and F4 the Tokina 80-200 at 135mm is superior to it until you get to F8 when the Pentax passes it a little. The Pentax has a little less distortion but the Tokina is less than 2% at around 135mm. Heck even the Tokina 100-300/4 is better at F4 than the Pentax and about the same at F8. The Pentax 135/2.8 is an ancient design that still holds its own but I would not consider it superior to the best zooms out there these days. In the days it was designed it was way better than any zoom at that range. Actually the earlier F model of the 135 has better numbers (same as the F 100/2.8 has better numbers than the FA version). If sample variation can be as much as .4 or larger on average MTF ratings it's still pretty much a tossup. I personally don't consider flair an important issue in the case of telephotos simply because if the sun is going to bother your shot you aren't taking your photography seriously enough. In wide angles I consider it important simply because often no amount of moving can get it out of the shot. But I agree with you on one point. The "best" primes have MTF ratings in the 4+ range and about the best you can get out of a zoom has a ceiling of about 4. Still even guys like Bob Shell agree that the best lenses these days will overpower the quality of most films used so often we can't see any difference between shots taken with lenses that only get 3.2 ratings and those that get 4.0 ratings. Especially in the 5x7 and below range of prints where most non-pro zooms tend to work. All the camera makers get by with putting (in our opinion) crappy 28-80 slow zooms simply because if you only shoot 4x6 most shots properly done will look close to indistinguishable from much better lenses if you don't blow them up bigger or look at them with a good loupe on a light table. Kent Gittings
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Paris, Leonard Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 3:15 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: Only using my prime lenses - I promise I think your quality assessment of zoom lenses is more than just a bit subjective. I don't believe the image quality of the lenses you listed "easily matches even the best primes" as you stated. "Even the best primes" includes the most stupendous prime lenses available. Zooms haven't progressed to that point yet. I own a few Pentax Primes that I don't think your zooms can 'easily match". The FA 35mm f/2, the FA* 85mm f/1.4, the FA 100mm f/2.8, the F 50mm f/1.7, the FA 135mm f/2.8. I have owned the Tokina ATX Pro 28-70mm f/2.6-2.8 before and it's a good lens but it's not better than the above mentioned primes. Len --- -----Original Message----- From: David Hatfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 1:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Only using my prime lenses - I promise I don't know, Bruce (et. al.). Seems to me that zooms are finding their own spot in today's photographic world. Years ago the argument for using primes centered on the fact that they were generally a higher quality lens that what you could find in even the highest priced zooms. I don't believe that to be the case anymore. Today's technology and production have brought zoom quality to a point that, if placed side by side, few if any could pick out shots made with primes as opposed to those made with zooms even at the highest magnification. Zooms are a great tool. They allow me to compose, shoot and recompose at a moments notice without having to waste time finding just the right spot to shoot from (assuming, of course, that my next shot will be from the same angle). The creative process still resides with me. It's only the equipment that is different. I still have to determine the best angle, framing, exposure, etc. for each shot whether I use a zoom or a prime. If I use a good quality zoom then the quality of the shot will come directly back to my capacity as a photographer, not to the nature of the lens. I currently carry four lenses in my bag > the Tokina ATX-pro 28-70 f2.6-2.8 (my "normal" lens), a Tokina ATX-pro 20-35 f2.8, a Tokina ATX-pro 80-200 f2.8 and the Sigma 105 EX f2.8 macro (my only non-zoom) used primarily for macro shots since it produces 1:1 without attachments. The quality of these lenses easily matches even the best primes and none of them releases me from having to think about how I'm composing my shot. They simply allow me the ease of altering that composition without having to dig in my bag so often. Zooms? I love 'em!! Dave Hatfield -----Original Message------ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Bruce Dayton Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 12:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Only using my prime lenses - I promise Certainly an interesting observation. I have been somewhat resistant to using zooms much for fear of the same thing happening to me. I really only have one zoom that I take now (Tokina 28-70 f:2.8) and find that I don't want it to be the default lens. But for how things fit in the bag, it is easiest to leave on the body. There are a few cases where the zoom is handy - basically when the subject keeps running around (kids, soccer, birthday party). Other than that I have tried to stick with the primes. I have been toying with getting a wide zoom, but your post gives me something to think about. Bruce Dayton Sacramento, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "aimcompute" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Pentax Discuss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 10:05 AM Subject: Only using my prime lenses - I promise > Hi everybody, > > Wanta start a discussion about zooms vs. primes? :-) > > I was out meandering around yesterday looking for autumn fall color shots > and the thought occurred to me that my prime lenses have seen too little use > lately. I usually have a zoom attached as the default lens... why? > Convenience maybe, or maybe I'm afraid I'll miss a shot because I had a 28mm > lens on-body when I needed a 200mm. When I do use a prime lens, I > immediately take it off and put the zoom back on, in part, because the zoom > is FAT and is harder to get in/out the lens pocket of the camera bag. > > I was blinded by a flash of insight and did some self-examination. Yes, I > AM A PITIFUL EXAMPLE OF THE SPECIES, A ROTTEN HUSBAND AND BAD FATHER! Those > things aside, I started thinking about how I have been shooting with a zoom > and realized how hindering to creativity it seems to be for me. Even though > the 28-200 does wide angle, when was the last time I consciously thought > about using it that way. Or composed with it purposely at 28mm? I can't > remember. > > What's happening is when I see a scene I consider shooting, I adjust the > focal length [FL] :-) until I'm happy with what I see in the viewfinder and > snap the picture. I feel likes it's turning me into a point and shooter. I > haven't been using the wide-angle capability to it's full advantage, for > instance, I could be using the short-focussing distance and greater DOF to > my advantage composition-wise. I should be looking for those shots, and I > DID when I purposely put a 28mm prime on, BEFORE I had a zoom. Same with > longer lenses. With the zoom, I'm just using it to get closer, instead of > thinking about how a long lens compresses things and then using it as a > composition tool. And with the relatively small maximum apertures of the > zooms, I think I've been missing shots a faster lens would allow, especially > if I did not have a tripod. > > So... I've decided to take my zooms out of the camera bag for an indefinite > period of time, at least a month, maybe forever unless it's a family > vacation. I will only use a M 28mm, FA 43mm, FA 100mm macro, and M 200mm. > I hope to see a difference in the results, both in quality and composition. > > Tom C. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. 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