Re: It's Still Stealing

[Christopher Chaltain]

I'm not sure if the statement "if you actually bother to read about it" 
is directed at me or not, but if so then I can assure you that I've read 
quite a bit about this issue. If you paid attention to my posts, you'll 
see that I never defend RIAA. I actually agree with everything you say, 
and I've said on this list that RIAA needs to change their model. The 
only point I've made is that copying protected material for anything 
other than your own personal use is illegal. The courts have backed this 
up. Just because RIAA is evil doesn't make this legal.

BTW, I am aware of the studies you've mentioned that piracy isn't as big 
a hit on the bottom line as RIAA would have you believe, but I've also 
seen studies that says it is. You can imagine who publishes these 
different studies.

--

Christopher
chalt...@gmail.com


On 4/19/2010 11:38 AM, James Homuth wrote:
Audiobook sales are pretty much exactly like album sales. The publishers see
most of the revenue from it, whereas the authors get stuck with very little.
And, indeed, there are quite a few authors now who are releasing their books
online first, knowing they'll be downloaded, given away, whatever, and
knowing that'll transfer over into more direct interactions with readers.
That, in turn, will generate more revenue that goes directly to the author.
Why do you think publishers are now getting all uppity because people are
being drawn more to ebooks? They don't get as much of a kickback from
it--the author gets more of the money then. That's why you see, if you
actually bother to read about it, publishers pulling their selections from
Amazon and companies like that. If a book is good enough, people will pay
for it anyway, whether they've purchased it or not. Because, and rightly so,
authors do deserve to be compensated for the work. But they're more likely
to pay for it in methods that go directly to the author if that's the case,
and bypass the publishers entirely.

Also, though I suspect pointing it out will serve only to be ignored,
there's a ton and a half of evidence that says piracy doesn't have nearly
the effect on sales of any variety as the industry would like to have you
believe. In fact, sales in certain industries are actually inicreasing, be
there piracy or no piracy. But best not tell that to the lobbiests just in
case they brand you a pirate by association.

-----Original Message-----
From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org]
On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain
Sent: April 19, 2010 9:24 AM
To: PC Audio Discussion List
Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing

No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them
away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books is
intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and
impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is necessary in
order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the attitude of
some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession they're
able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS and other
companies and agencies need to take such action.

Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it for a
profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money (whatever
that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking about.
If you're implying that kickbacks are involved then that's illegal and you
should report that. I also don't see how the 3rd party players are raking in
the dough from this, unless by providing this feature they're boosting their
sales. I don't see anything wrong with that by the way.


Christopher
chalt...@gmail.com


On 4/19/2010 8:10 AM, Frank Ventura wrote:
   
If I walk into my local public library and check out a book the
librarian doesn't tell me which room in my house I can or cannot read
the book in. However with BARD they restrict qualified persons as to
which player the must use. The government is buying tons of those new
digital players and someone is making tons of money building and
selling them to the government and someone in said government is
receiving "incentives" to continue this practice? So does anyone not
think it is all about money?


-----Original Message-----
From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org
[mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:01 PM
To: 'PC Audio Discussion List'
Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing

BARD is under the misguided impression that, even after you download
your copy of a particular book, BARD still owns that copy. You have no
legal authority to do anything, considered legal or otherwise, with
that copy.
Not
only is that incorrect, but it's also even more restrictive than even
the most literally interpreted copyright law. Again, I'll use my
example of iTunes. You pay for a couple songs from iTunjes. They're
now yours.
Apple no
longer owns those copies. You can put them on your iWhatever, burn
them to a CD, do pretty much whatever you want with them. Not true
with BARD. And it's business models like that that convince people to
do things you would call stealing.

-----Original Message-----
From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org
[mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org]
On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell
Sent: April 18, 2010 11:51 AM
To: PC Audio Discussion List
Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing

but from Bard, which was your example, you don't have permission.
----- Original Message -----
From: "mitchell"<mitchellgre...@gmail.com>
To: "'PC Audio Discussion List'"<pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:43 AM
Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing



     
That's absulootly rite, but after you qualify for the servis, and
down

       

     
load
the file you still don't return it so if this all rite then how is
tom

       
or

     
anyone who has someone's pramition to coppy a fyle then how is it
steeling?
Mitchell

-----Original Message-----
From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org

       
[mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org]

     
On Behalf Of James Homuth
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:37 AM
To: 'PC Audio Discussion List'
Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing

Apple tried to do the exact same thing with their iTunes. They tried
limitting exactly what type of player you could put their music etc
on

       
in

     
the same way BARD is. The reasons that didn't work are the exact same
reasons BARD shouldn't be doing that either. If you get your hands on
something, whether you have legal access to do so or not, you're
going

       
to

     
want to do whatever you want with that something. Either put it on a

       
CD,

     
or
copy it to something smaller than your Victor Reader, or any number
of things. And if someone wants to burn that book to a CD, or do

       
something

     
else
with it that BARD has decided they're not allowed to, even though
they

       

     
have
legal access to it, people are just going to find less legal means to

       
do

     
so.
Rather than prop up and defend an out of date business model, people
should be pushing companies like BARD to get caught up with the rest
of the

       
world

     
and actually give people a choice as to what to do with their
acquisitions.

-----Original Message-----
From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org

       
[mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org]

     
On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell
Sent: April 18, 2010 11:28 AM
To: PC Audio Discussion List
Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing

But with Bard, you're not permitted to share and you have to qualify

       
for

     
their service by being blind and having a player that they authroize.
There
is a specific exception in the copyright law for Bard and Bookshare

       
type

     
services.
----- Original Message -----
From: "mitchell"<mitchellgre...@gmail.com>
To: "'PC Audio Discussion List'"<pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:17 AM
Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing



       
I'm with you man, if it is steeling then why is it all rite to use
bard with the book players, because you are downloading the books.
Then you are not giving them back. Not a problem as far as I am
concerned.
Mitchell

-----Original Message-----
From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org
[mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org]
On Behalf Of DJ DOCTOR P
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:09 AM
To: PC Audio Discussion List
Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing

Ok, so you say, "it's still stealing."
Then you tell me, why are there still some websites that lets you
download music and audio books without having to pay anything for it?
Yes these sites still exist, and people are downloading music and
audio books without having to pay a dime for it.
Explain that one to me, if you can!
   John.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom"<t...@pc-audio.org>
To:<pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:49 AM
Subject: It's Still Stealing



         
It's still stealing whether or not your boss gives you permission
to copy it.

Tom

** Message From: DJ DOCTOR P **

           
High Tom,
I don't do it unless my boss gives me the green light to

             
do it.

           
If he says yes, then I do it.
But if he says no, then it doesn't happen.

             
     
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