tl;dr: The openstack, openstack-dev, openstack-sigs and openstack-operators mailing lists (to which this is being sent) will be replaced by a new openstack-disc...@lists.openstack.org mailing list. The new list is open for subscriptions[0] now, but is not yet accepting posts until Monday November 19 and it's strongly recommended to subscribe before that date so as not to miss any messages posted there. The old lists will be configured to no longer accept posts starting on Monday December 3, but in the interim posts to the old lists will also get copied to the new list so it's safe to unsubscribe from them any time after the 19th and not miss any messages. Now on to the details...
The original proposal[1] I cross-posted to these lists in August received overwhelmingly positive feedback (indeed only one strong objection[2] was posted, thanks Thomas for speaking up, and my apologies in advance if this makes things less convenient for you), which is unusual since our community usually tends to operate on silent assent and tacit agreement. Seeing what we can only interpret as majority consensus for the plan among the people reading messages posted to these lists, a group of interested individuals met last week in the Infrastructure team room at the PTG to work out the finer details[3]. We devised a phased timeline: During the first phase (which begins with this announcement) the new openstack-discuss mailing list will accept subscriptions but not posts. Its short and full descriptions indicate this, as does the welcome message sent to all new subscribers during this phase. The list is configured for "emergency moderation" mode so that all posts, even those from subscribers, immediately land in the moderation queue and can be rejected with an appropriate message. We strongly recommend everyone who is on any of the current general openstack, openstack-dev, openstack-operators and openstack-sigs lists subscribe to openstack-discuss during this phase in order to avoid missing any messages to the new list. Phase one lasts roughly one month and ends on Monday November 19, just after the OpenStack Stein Summit in Berlin. The second phase picks up at the end of the first. During this phase, emergency moderation is no longer in effect and subscribers can post to the list normally (non-subscribers are subject to moderation of course in order to limit spam). Any owners/moderators from the original lists who wish it will be added to the new one to collaborate on moderation tasks. At this time the openstack-discuss list address itself will be subscribed to posts from the openstack, openstack-dev, openstack-operators and openstack-sigs mailing lists so anyone who wishes to unsubscribe from those can do so at any time during this phase without missing any replies sent there. The list descriptions and welcome message will also be updated to their production prose. Phase two runs for two weeks ending on Monday December 3. The third and final phase begins at the end of the second, when further posts to the general openstack, openstack-dev, openstack-operators and openstack-sigs lists will be refused and the descriptions for those lists updated to indicate they're indefinitely retired from use. The old archives will still be preserved of course, but no new content will appear in them. A note about DMARC/DKIM: during the planning discussion we also spoke briefly about the problems we encounter on the current lists whereby subscriber MTAs which check DKIM signatures appearing in some posts reject them and cause those subscribers to get unsubscribed after too many of these bounces. While reviewing the various possible mitigation options available to us, we eventually resolved that the least objectionable solution was to cease modifying the list subject and body. As such, for the new openstack-discuss list you won't see [openstack-discuss] prepended to message subjects, and there will be no list footer block added to the message body. Rest assured the usual RFC 2369 List-* headers[4] will still be added so MUAs can continue to take filtering actions based on them as on our other lists. I'm also including a couple of FAQs which have come up over the course of this... Why make a new list instead of just directing people to join an existing one such as the openstack general ML? For one, the above list behavior change to address DMARC/DKIM issues is a good reason to want a new list; making those changes to any of the existing lists is already likely to be disruptive anyway as subscribers may be relying on the subject mangling for purposes of filtering list traffic. Also as noted earlier in the thread for the original proposal, we have many suspected defunct subscribers who are not bouncing (either due to abandoned mailboxes or MTAs black-holing them) so this is a good opportunity to clean up the subscriber list and reduce the overall amount of E-mail unnecessarily sent by the server. Why not simply auto-subscribe everyone from the four older lists to the new one and call it a day? Well, I personally would find it rude if a list admin mass-subscribed me to a mailing list I hadn't directly requested. Doing so may even be illegal in some jurisdictions (we could probably make a case that it's warranted, but it's cleaner to not need to justify such an action). Much like the answer to the previous question, the changes in behavior (and also in the list name itself) are likely to cause lots of subscribers to need to update their message filtering rules anyway. I know by default it would all start landing in my main inbox, and annoy me mightily. What subject tags are we going to be using to identify messages of interest and to be able to skip those we don't care about? We're going to continuously deploy a list of recommended subject tags in a visible space, either on the listserv's WebUI or the Infra Manual and link to it liberally. There is already an initial set of suggestions[5] being brainstormed, so feel free to add any there you feel might be missing. It's not yet been decided whether we'll also include these in the Mailman "Topics" configuration to enable server-side filtering on them (as there's a good chance we'll be unable to continue supporting that after an upgrade to Mailman 3), so for now it's best to assume you may need to add them to your client-side filters if you rely on that capability. If you have any further questions, please feel free to respond to this announcement so we can make sure they're answered. [0] http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-discuss [1] http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-sigs/2018-August/000493.html [2] http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-August/134074.html [3] https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-ptg-denver-2018 [4] https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2369.txt [5] https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/common-openstack-ml-topics -- Jeremy Stanley
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