Article from shapeblue hopes can help you http://shapeblue.com/uncategorized/cloudstack-and-openstack-chalk-and-cheese/
--- Thanks, Yitao(依涛 姜) jiangyt.github.io On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 5:52 AM, Jay Pipes <jaypi...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Jordi, thank you SO much for this email. It is excellent feedback for > our community and our developers. I've provided some comments inline, but > overall just wanted to thank you for bringing some of these product needs > to our attention. > > On 12/03/2014 01:42 PM, Jordi Moles Blanco wrote: > >> Hi everyone, >> >> I've been looking though the old messages in this list and I haven't >> found this kind of information (sorry if it is present somewhere and I >> couldn't find), so I decided to ask you because you are the experts on >> this. >> >> We want to build a new cloud platform and we have been playing with both >> options for a while. >> >> There are plenty of articles where people give their opinion about which >> stack technology is better, but they are more business-oriented than >> technically-oriented. >> > > Agreed. And, to be fair, we try not to promote the idea that there is > always a one-size-fits-all solution for everybody's needs. > > Both OpenStack and Cloudstack are solutions that work well for certain > customers -- anybody who says one is a good solution and the other isn't is > being dishonest or shallow. > > I don't want to do that, I don't think there are good or bad players in >> this game, just different options that you have to know very well before >> you make your decision. >> > > ++ > > And that's why I'm asking you as Openstack experts. You see, I managed >> to deploy a Cloustack 4.4.1 platform with 2 compute nodes (for >> live-migration testing) in less than 2 hours, while it took me days to >> deploy an Openstack infrastructure that was functional and sometimes it >> just breaks and I have to reboot some nodes or redeploy with Fuel. >> > > This is an extremely common complaint about OpenStack. That it is just too > difficult to install and configure a simple OpenStack environment with > common compute, block storage, and networking functionality. > > I could sit here and say that this problem is due to the fact that > OpenStack's community has embraced each and every configuration management > system, deployment architecture, and package management platform and > therefore the complexity you find is simply due to the dizzying array of > options and flexibility offered by the ecosystem. > > But, of course, that would be a complete cop-out and terrible excuse. The > fact is, our installation and deployment story is currently overly > complicated, inconsistently documented, and difficult for newcomers to get > their heads around. That needs to be fixed. > > I know, I'm just an inexperienced Openstack user, but that is one of my >> points: For any company that wants to go all the way to Openstack, it >> may inevitably face a big transformation and I don't think that everyone >> is ready for that. Sure, you do that because you want to change, you >> want to be able to provide infrastructure much faster, but there are >> other options that don't mean such a big change. >> > > Agreed. > > <snip> > >> What I do care about is having a platform that eases the process of vm >> provisioning and at the same time is easy to install, configure and >> maintain. >> >> Both platforms do that, but I feel that in order to do that, you need to >> have a group of highly trained people in Openstack whose only job is >> keeping the infrastructure running, while due to Cloudstack >> architecture, It doesn't seem like you need the same kind of expertise. >> > > Yes, completely agreed. It's something we need to do much better at. > > If you don't want to dedicate resources, you can always pay for a >> managed Openstack solution, but then you are outsourcing your platform >> and, again, not everyone is ready for that, both for culture and pricing. >> >> I've also read several times that Openstack is a more mature project, >> with more features than other projects. >> >> Here are some thoughts: >> >> -As for vm provisioning, they both do that. >> -Cloudstack also has something similar to Ceilometer. >> -Cloudstack network management is also able to provide Network As a >> service: vpn, lb, etc. >> -Support for several commercial hypervisors on both. >> -Orchestration tools on top of the stack. It is true that Openstack >> comes with things like Heat, Juju or Openshift, but you can also use >> Juju with instances from Cloudtack and there are things like Cloudstack >> integration in Vagrant. >> > > To be clear, the only thing directly related to OpenStack is Heat. > > Juju is a tool from Canonical that can be used to install/deploy > applications in various VMs. OpenShift is a platform from Red Hat that > provides an application container system for developers to deploy their > applications into a cloud infrastructure. > > There is OpenStack "integration" with Vagrant via various things like > devstack-vagrant: > > https://github.com/openstack-dev/devstack-vagrant > > -Both can integrate well with Amazon. >> -Things like deploying Hadoop with a click from Horizon is great, but it >> is virtualized and not suitable for all needs. Also, you can deploy >> Hadoop with Juju on Cloudstack vms. >> >> Obviously, I know pretty well what we will do with the Cloud >> infraestructure: vm provisioning that will allow us to sell services to >> end users. We won't sell vms to the end-user, only services: web, dns, >> mysql, etc. We will also probably go for containers, but you don't need >> Openstack for that, tools like Kubernetes let you play with Docker at >> scale in a very easy way. >> > > True enough. OpenStack Nova/Glance/Cinder/Ironic/Neutron is about the > infrastructure underneath those containers, though, not the containers > themselves. You still need a system to provision the bare metal and/or VM > resources in which the containers will be hosted. > > So... given all that and the complexity of running Openstack, I just >> want to know, feature-wise, why you think Openstack is a better option. >> >> For example, I can think of scalability. Openstack has the storage >> system built-in with Swift and Ceph. >> > > Note that Ceph != OpenStack. Ceph is great, but it's entirely separate > from OpenStack. It's true that Glance, Cinder, and Nova contain various > drivers that support RBD/Ceph, but the Ceph project is not in OpenStack > itself. > > Ceph is great and very scalable, while Cloudstack only asks you to add >> an external storage system (mainly NAS or SAN). >> So, in Cloudstack, you have to prepare and scale if necessary an >> independent storage system or create a new zone with a new pool. >> I wonder how much you can actually scale Ceph and if you don't have to >> make a new deployment of Openstack when you reach a certain number of >> Ceph nodes or computes nodes (specially because performance declines >> after a certain number of Ceph nodes). >> > > Not sure. I'll let the Ceph experts handle that question... > > We are right now testing both projects and their features seem equally >> advanced for what we want to do (I would even say that Cloudstack has >> some cool features like the ability to limit how many IOPS an instance >> can use. >> > > Note that OpenStack also has the ability to limit IOPS that an instance > can use, however, like many things in OpenStack, this feature is not > particularly well documented and is awkward to configure: > > https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/InstanceResourceQuota#IO_limits > > Can you highlight some Openstack advantages that we may be missing in >> our tests? >> > > There are few technical differences between the features offered by > Cloudstack and OpenStack. OpenStack generally supports more driver options > and topology options than Cloudstack, with the cost of increased complexity. > > The primary differences between Cloudstack and OpenStack are the > non-technical differences that you said you were less interested in: the > size and breadth of the community providing support, the focus on GUI > configuration versus command-line + GUI interfaces, etc. > > All the best, > -jay > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing list: http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ > openstack > Post to : openstack@lists.openstack.org > Unsubscribe : http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ > openstack >
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