On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Tim Bell <tim.b...@cern.ch> wrote: > > > Specifying something as a bug needs to determine things like ‘what > component should this be addressed in’ and describing the desired > behaviour. Many of the comments from the survey describe the pain points, > rather than the solutions. Upgrading is difficult, no mechanism to auto > restart VMs on other hypervisors, monitoring frameworks, inconsistent > options in command line tools and APIs, … equally, missing functional gaps > do not fall well into the bug system. > > >
Thanks for the examples. > I have received the feedback from operators when raising issues that > they get the response ‘contributions are welcome’. Running an openstack > cloud can be non-trivial, especially the big ones, and there is a need to > appreciate that this effort is a significant part of the OpenStack > community effort (along with the blogs, the documentation updates, the > summit presentations). > While having a dev/operator session at the summit would be helpful, I don't think meeting twice a year for a few hours is enough. We don't get all our planning done at the summit (although we do get a lot done), and I think the same applies here. You bring up a really great point here, we don't have a good way for an operator to file a bug against OpenStack ( http://launchpad.net/openstack) that describes a pain point and not a solution. So as an operator, I want to be able to file a bug saying 'X is a problem for me' and not know if its a nova issue or a glance issue etc or know how to fix it. > > > I personally have a different proposal to Tristan (although I like his)… > my proposal is that each program should have a session dedicated to > user/operator needs at the start. Between the UC, the volunteers to look > at the survey comments and the user group ambassadors, we should be able to > put together a set of pain points to be considered for the next release… > solutions are up to the design teams. > I like the general direction this thread is going. > > > Tim > > > > *From:* Joe Gordon [mailto:joe.gord...@gmail.com] > *Sent:* 16 December 2013 18:38 > *To:* Tristan Goode > *Cc:* openstack@lists.openstack.org > > *Subject:* Re: [Openstack] Bringing focus to the Operators and Users at > the next summit > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 10:36 PM, Tristan Goode <tris...@aptira.com> > wrote: > > I'm trying to establish a feedback loop "because" we (Operators, Users, > etc) > need to better present our actual real world, evidence based Operator, > User, > > and even other input like Sales and Marketing experiences back into the > > development teams. Much of this does and will come from the great work of > the UC, the User surveys, and especially the folks that have volunteered to > analyse the survey results. I'm hoping to build on the survey analysis and > collaboratively and constructively focus that to present a blueprint or > roadmap with a "whole of OpenStack" scope. We can dig deeper into the user > survey feedback and break beyond the bounds of the limited format of the > user survey to seed the discussion. For me, the most valuable session in > Hong Kong was the discussion led by Tim of the user survey. It was however, > all too short. > > > > Do you have any examples of what kind of feedback you would like to pass > on to developers (I was unable to attend Tim's discussion of the user > survey)? Also just playing devils advocate here, but why not use our bug > system to provide feedback? > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sean Dague [mailto:s...@dague.net] > > Sent: Saturday, 14 December 2013 3:02 AM > > To: openstack@lists.openstack.org > > Subject: Re: [Openstack] Bringing focus to the Operators and Users at the > > next > > summit > > > > So not that I don't think this is a worth while thing, because I think it > > is. But instead > > of jumping to the solution of a User Day, it might be useful to figure > out > > what's > > attempting to be solved. > > > > Is it? > > > > 1) get Users together to share best practices among themselves? Because > > lots of > > people have learned things, and want to bootstrap others. > > > > 2) get Users and Operators together to share best practices among > > themselves? > > Because ... > > > > 3) get Vendors and Users and Operators together? Because ... > > > > 4) get Developers and Users and Operators together? Because .... > > > > I think if you start with defining the Because ... part, then the needed > > parties, then > > the odds of this being successful and useful to folks goes way up. It > also > > would give > > people attending a reasonable expectation of what they are going to get > > out of it. > > > > Because it would be a shame to set up #1, if most people thought they > were > > getting > > #4 (which is basically what Lorin was proposing with his adopt a > developer > > idea), > > then people being disappointed that they didn't get what they thought > they > > were > > getting. > > > > The design summit works pretty well for the development community because > > of > > how narrowly it is scoped. So a critical mass in each of those rooms > knows > > when it's > > getting off track and how to pull it back to something actionable at the > > end. > > > > -Sean > > > > On 12/13/2013 06:05 AM, Tristan Goode wrote: > > > I guess what I'm trying to say by "Users and Operators" covers > > > carriers and telcos. By User I mean folks that consume OpenStack > > > resources and by Operator I mean folks that supply OpenStack > > > resources. Maybe all can be called Users but whatever one calls it, > > > what I mean basically is Non-Developers actually working on and with > > > OpenStack. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Tristan > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:*Kyle MacDonald [mailto:kyle.macdon...@gmail.com > > > <mailto:kyle.macdon...@gmail.com>] > > > *Sent:* Thursday, 12 December 2013 7:02 PM > > > *To:* Tristan Goode > > > *Cc:* openstack@lists.openstack.org > > > <mailto:openstack@lists.openstack.org> > > > *Subject:* Re: [Openstack] Bringing focus to the Operators and Users > > > at the next summit > > > > > > > > > > > > Tristan > > > > > > I like this idea and agree it should be a priority. I do suggest the > > > focus area be expanded (or a second focus day) to accommodate carriers > > > and telcos and their operations needs (they are real operators). > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a ton of work being done by the leading telco's around NFV > > > and SDN (many in emerging use cases) using OpenStack. I can very > > > easily see "operations" being a killer issue and something that should > > > be more broadly addressed. Last summit the forum for that track of > > > discussions was by a vendor - next summit this area should be made > > > more neutral and inclusive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kyle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 11, 2013, at 10:55 PM, Tristan Goode <tris...@aptira.com > > > <mailto:tris...@aptira.com>> wrote: > > > > > > G'day OpenStackLand, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have an idea for the next summit to put forward... > > > > > > > > > > > > Like we have the various project design summit session days at the > > > summits, I think it'd be really useful to have an Operators and > > > Users day at the very start of the next summit (and hopefully all > of > > > them in future if it works out). So far at the last 4 summits I've > > > attended, from the users and operators point of view we've had a > rag > > > tag bunch of disconnected panels and 40 minute sessions that really > > > don't get anywhere much and don’t make it to any sort of plan or > > > worthwhile result. This proposed "Operators and Users" day will be > > > run like the design summit session days where all of us that have > to > > > deal with the consequences of the software development of this > > > project sit in a room and work the issues. The goal is to present > > > real world, evidence based Operator, User, and even other input > like > > > Sales and Marketing experiences back into the development teams. > > > Maybe we might even have our own "Operators and Users" lounge too. > > > :-P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Tristan > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mailing list: > > > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack > > > Post to : openstack@lists.openstack.org > > > <mailto:openstack@lists.openstack.org> > > > Unsubscribe : > > > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mailing list: > > > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack > > > Post to : openstack@lists.openstack.org > > > Unsubscribe : > > > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack > > > > > > > > > -- > > Sean Dague > > http://dague.net > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing list: > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack > Post to : openstack@lists.openstack.org > Unsubscribe : > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack > > >
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