Duncan McGreggor <dun...@dreamhost.com> writes: >> And for "announce": who gets the right to post to it ? Or >> rather, who gets to moderate the posts to it ? PPB ? PTL/relmgr ? Any >> volunteer ?
Release announcements, and security updates should go to the announce list, so it seems reasonable to allow the release and security teams to moderate it. > You'll have to work very hard to convince me that an announce list is > worth the trouble :) 'Tradition' is not a good argument. Someone pointed out that since the security announcements _haven't_ been going to the announce list, but the main mailing list instead, that they are concerned that people may have missed them. That seems like a very important and valid concern to me. I believe that operators, distributors, and news organizations who aren't 100% focused on OpenStack but still have an interest would appreciate a low-volume announcement list. When I'm responsible for running instances of several free software projects, I like subscribe to the announce list of all of them, even if I'm not subscribed to the -users or -dev list. To punt and say "people will see it on G+ or Twitter or whatever" (as stated elsewhere in this thread) isn't good enough for a project of this size. What user should they follow? What hashtag should they search for? Fundamentally, the same problems will show up -- either search for "#openstack" and run the risk of having to read every tweet about someone who "loves #openstack", or follow @openstack and, well, from the looks of it, have the same problem. Who gets to post from the @openstack account? Is the answer to that any better than what we could do with the announce list? Security updates frequently don't fit within 140 characters. > First of all, it's not clear to me *who* would need to send out > announcements. Can somebody start from there? Release team. Security team. > I'll start enumerating why I don't think such list is needed by > community managers: > > - more lists, more policies, more complexity for newcomers, things that > they need to learn. > - more lists, more policies, more complexity to manage (moderators, spam > masters, etc) The announce, user, developer triplicate is widely used and understood. Very few people need to learn something new, and those that do will be well served by learning it. > - the announce list has not been used for over 8 months, nobody noticed The announce list is not listed here: http://wiki.openstack.org/MailingLists As far as I'm concerned, that means we don't have an announce list. No wonder no one knew about it or used it. We have releases in production now, people have a more pressing need for seeing these announcements, and we now have a need to make them. This is a good time to start using it properly. > - multiplying contact points for people increases the need for > cross-posting, more messages Most decent mail providers have Message-ID based duplicate suppression; cross-posting isn't the issue it used to be. Or don't cross-post. Or subscribe the user list to the announce list. Announce lists are low traffic -- no one is going to be upset at the flood of messages from it. > - an announce is fundamentally a one-way communication, no need to have > 'discussions' around it, mailing list is the wrong tool *today* (it made > sense in the 90s) An announce list is a great tool for one-way communication. It's easy to configure it to discard unsolicited replies. There's no rule that says you have to reply to every email you receive. Email is a useful way to receive pertinent information. As long as the rest of the project uses mailing lists at all, it's not a burden to have an announcement list. > - an announce sent to a mailman list is fundamentally shouting in the > wind: there might be people listening, you'll never know if they heard > something. A *segmented* (developers, operators, business folks) > newsletter is the best way to send out announcements. I disagree with that; people who need to see information of the highest importance from the project -- releases and security updates -- will self-select only to subscribe to the announce mailing list, and if we start using it properly, they will know they are getting the information they need. Without that structure in place, the sheer amount of information (newsletters, twitter feeds, blog posts, G+ posts, general purpose mailing list) a person who just wants to know when they should upgrade is quite daunting, and in my mind, much more like "shouting in the wind". I believe we should at least have the common set of three mailing lists (announce, user/operator, dev) and have a web page that lists them. -Jim _______________________________________________ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
