I captured some of our discussion in the etherpad, but feel free to extend. Brian
------------------------------------------------- Brian Schott, CTO Nimbis Services, Inc. brian.sch...@nimbisservices.com ph: 443-274-6064 fx: 443-274-6060 On Apr 22, 2012, at 9:32 PM, Luis Gervaso wrote: > Congrats for the project! > > On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 3:06 AM, Zhongyue Luo <lzye...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, I'm the person who presented Dough. > > After my presentation there were lots of feedback from many people. > > The conclusion was that no matter how generic I tried to design Dough, the > billing requirements of each company will vary if they have different > metering specifications. > > This happen every time "what works for your business does not for mine" I > think the response is: "You can use if works for you ..." > > Therefore a few companies have agreed to first work on a metering system > together as described in http://wiki.openstack.org/EfficientMetering and > http://etherpad.openstack.org/EfficientMetering > > They plan to officially launch a metering project and incubate the project in > Folsom if possible. > > It sound really good! Anycase I think the billing should be outside the > OpenStack realm. A bunch of work is necessary to do the metering and the > following integrations > > What I plan to do with Dough is to first use it in production and present how > it worked out in our beta service at the next summit. > > Kanyun will be replaced with the new metering system. > > I'll work on the documentation of Dough once I finish testing it with our > closed beta production environment. > > Can be seen Dough as a success history of OpenStack Billing integration? > > Cheers, > LZY > > > On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 5:43 PM, Luis Gervaso <l...@woorea.es> wrote: > > > On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 2:10 AM, Brian Schott > <brian.sch...@nimbisservices.com> wrote: > Agreed. Not to mention all of those web commerce systems (Ubercart, Sachmo, > Mezzanine/Cartridge, and many wordpress and rails commerce platforms I don't > know). We don't need to reinvent selling stuff on the Internet. So, what's > really missing? > > 1) The ability to query historical cloud resource utilization over a given > time period for usage reports, graphs, and invoice generation. The > alternative is polling the status interfaces frequently and caching > externally. Many applications could use this with no need of billing > semantics. Horizon can show you current instances, volumes, cores, memory, > disk, etc. but no way it could give you a graph over time given that it > doesn't store any historical data. It shouldn't store historical data, > another OpenStack service should. > > Exactly. > I'm evaluating such systems, actually I want to transform events from > openstack into billable items on a billing system. So I store event for > historical queries (accounting service) and send billable info to billing > system to avoid a billing system has to pull openstack. > > 2) Maybe, the ability to register an external web hook for resource so I > don't have to poll for state changes. This might be purely RESTful, so maybe > this Nipper service returns 304 and lets the client cache? Does the > OpenStack API support 304 not modified? I bet it doesn't because it doesn't > have historical data. > I have not found any 304 in the API > > 3) Maybe, the ability to register an billing approval hook into keystone? > Could be modeled like oauth style transaction. > I think we can use the existing X-Auth-Token with a billing system role as > the first approach (i have to look closer) > > ------------------------------------------------- > Brian Schott, CTO > Nimbis Services, Inc. > brian.sch...@nimbisservices.com > ph: 443-274-6064 fx: 443-274-6060 > > > > On Apr 22, 2012, at 6:54 PM, Luis Gervaso wrote: > >> You can, but there are more billing providers, i want to provider a point >> where you can choose >> your provider. >> >> I propose 4 possibilities as example: >> >> Scenario1 (this can be the reference implementation): >> >> OpenStack + Dough >> >> Scenario2: >> >> OpenStack + Zoura >> >> Scenario3: >> >> OpenStack + JBilling >> >> Scenario4: >> >> OpenStack + Recurly >> >> On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 12:26 AM, Endre Karlson <endre.karl...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> Why can't Dough / Kanyun be used for this? >> >> Endre. >> >> 2012/4/23 Brian Schott <brian.sch...@nimbisservices.com> >> The heart of nova-biling is built around accounts, resources, billing >> segments with a tariff and cost. Not clear at my first review where/how >> these costs are set. >> >> Brian >> >> ------------------------------------------------- >> Brian Schott, CTO >> Nimbis Services, Inc. >> brian.sch...@nimbisservices.com >> ph: 443-274-6064 fx: 443-274-6060 >> >> >> >> On Apr 22, 2012, at 5:38 PM, Luis Gervaso wrote: >> >>> I see this is an accounting system, a billing system needs things like >>> promotional codes, vat, invoices ... >>> >>> I'm proposing the way the events should be orchestated >>> >>> Please, correct me, if i'm wrong >>> >>> Luis >>> >>> On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 11:16 PM, Atul Jha <atul....@csscorp.com> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> Has anyone checked this >>> http://www.griddynamics.com/openstack/docs/nova-billing/quickstart.html >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: openstack-bounces+atul.jha=csscorp....@lists.launchpad.net >>> [openstack-bounces+atul.jha=csscorp....@lists.launchpad.net] on behalf of >>> Endre Karlson [endre.karl...@gmail.com] >>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 2:27 AM >>> To: openstack@lists.launchpad.net >>> Subject: Re: [Openstack] Monitoring / Billing Architecture proposed >>> >>> What is Dough then compared to what you want to do ? >>> >>> 2012/4/22 Endre Karlson >>> <endre.karl...@gmail.com<mailto:endre.karl...@gmail.com>> >>> What is Dough then ? >>> >>> >>> 2012/4/22 Brian Schott >>> <brian.sch...@nimbisservices.com<mailto:brian.sch...@nimbisservices.com>> >>> I see this blueprint for metering, but none for Dough currently. >>> http://wiki.openstack.org/EfficientMetering >>> >>> Here are the Dough slides, however: >>> http://www.slideshare.net/lzyeval/dough-openstack-billing-project >>> >>> We collectively need to talk more about the user scenarios, because I don't >>> think you can just put a decorator around the API rpc calls and get an >>> accurate picture of what to bill for later. There are metered things like >>> bandwidth or IOPS, events that happen outside of the API (shutdown -h), and >>> it is hard to predict what a reseller will want to charge for. It is >>> better to put a metering system in that can handle many billing >>> configurations. >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------- >>> Brian Schott, CTO >>> Nimbis Services, Inc. >>> brian.sch...@nimbisservices.com<mailto:brian.sch...@nimbisservices.com> >>> ph: 443-274-6064<tel:443-274-6064> fx: 443-274-6060<tel:443-274-6060> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 22, 2012, at 3:36 PM, Luis Gervaso wrote: >>> >>> Dough is the proposed billing platform/product (where the billing rules >>> live), isn't it? >>> >>> I don't know Dough enough, so please me correct me if i'm wrong. >>> >>> I'm trying to define a generic/agnostic integration process, obviously >>> where Dough >>> can fit perfectly. I would like it become part to the reference >>> architecture. >>> >>> Option 1) [3b in the arch proposed] >>> >>> Dough should pull NoSQL >>> >>> Option 2) >>> >>> A Mediator can feed Dough >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 9:13 PM, Endre Karlson >>> <endre.karl...@gmail.com<mailto:endre.karl...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> What about using the Dough project? >>> >>> Endre. >>> >>> >>> 2012/4/22 Endre Karlson >>> <endre.karl...@gmail.com<mailto:endre.karl...@gmail.com>> >>> What about using the Dough project ? >>> >>> Endre. >>> >>> 2012/4/22 Luis Gervaso <l...@woorea.es<mailto:l...@woorea.es>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I want to share the architecture i am developing in order to perform the >>> monitorig / billing OpenStack support: >>> >>> 1. AMQP Client which listen to RabbitMQ / QPid (this should be >>> interchangeable) (Own Stuff or ServiceMix / Camel) >>> >>> 2. Events should be stored on a NoSQL document oriented database (I think >>> mongodb is perfect, since we can query in a super easy fashion) >>> >>> 3a. The monitoring system can pull/push MongoDB >>> >>> 3b. The billing system can pull to create invoices >>> >>> 4. A mediation EIP should be necessary to integrate a billing/monitoring >>> product. (ServiceMix / Camel) >>> >>> This is to receive your feedback. So please, critics are welcome! >>> >>> Cheers! >>> >>> -- >>> ------------------------------------------- >>> Luis Alberto Gervaso Martin >>> Woorea Solutions, S.L >>> CEO & CTO >>> mobile: (+34) 627983344<tel:%28%2B34%29%20627983344> >>> luis@<mailto:luis.gerv...@gmail.com>woorea.es<http://woorea.es/> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack >>> Post to : >>> openstack@lists.launchpad.net<mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net> >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack >>> Post to : >>> openstack@lists.launchpad.net<mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net> >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ------------------------------------------- >>> Luis Alberto Gervaso Martin >>> Woorea Solutions, S.L >>> CEO & CTO >>> mobile: (+34) 627983344<tel:%28%2B34%29%20627983344> >>> luis@<mailto:luis.gerv...@gmail.com>woorea.es<http://woorea.es/> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack >>> Post to : >>> openstack@lists.launchpad.net<mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net> >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>> >>> >>> http://www.csscorp.com/common/email-disclaimer.php >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack >>> Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ------------------------------------------- >>> Luis Alberto Gervaso Martin >>> Woorea Solutions, S.L >>> CEO & CTO >>> mobile: (+34) 627983344 >>> l...@woorea.es >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack >>> Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack >> Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack >> Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------- >> Luis Alberto Gervaso Martin >> Woorea Solutions, S.L >> CEO & CTO >> mobile: (+34) 627983344 >> l...@woorea.es >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack >> Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------- > Luis Alberto Gervaso Martin > Woorea Solutions, S.L > CEO & CTO > mobile: (+34) 627983344 > l...@woorea.es > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack > Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------- > Luis Alberto Gervaso Martin > Woorea Solutions, S.L > CEO & CTO > mobile: (+34) 627983344 > l...@woorea.es >
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