Thanks Tomas, I did understand you, I just didn't make my point perfectly. The point is that OpenStack has two very different missions today, and that is causing my frustration and I have let that go for now. There is a hosting mission, where we try to keep computing pets alive, and a cloud mission, where we try to give people flexible access to computing resources at scale to use as cattle.
I've done a poor job of acknowledging those who use OpenStack for hosting, and I'm trying to get better. Thanks for being a user! Excerpts from Tomáš Vondra's message of 2017-10-06 12:06:45 +0200: > Dear Clint, > maybe you misunderstood a little, or I didn't write it explicitly. We use > OpenStack for providing a VPS service, yes. But the VPS users do not get > access to OpenStack directly, but instead, they use our Customer Portal which > does the orchestration. The whole point is to make the service as easy as > possible to use for them and not expose them to the complexity of the Cloud. > As I said, we couldn't use Rebuild because VPS's have Volumes. We do use > Resize because it is there. But we could as well use more low-level cloud > primitives. The user does not care in this case. How does, e.g., WHMCS do it? > That is a stock software that you can use to provide VPS over OpenStack. > Tomas from Homeatcloud > > -----Original Message----- > From: Clint Byrum [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 6:50 PM > To: openstack-operators > Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] [nova] Should we allow passing new > user_data during rebuild? > > No offense is intended, so please forgive me for the possibly incendiary > nature of what I'm about to write: > > VPS is the predecessor of cloud (and something I love very much, and rely on > every day!), and encourages all the bad habits that a cloud disallows. At > small scale, it's the right thing, and that's why I use it for my small scale > needs. Get a VM, put your stuff on it, and keep it running forever. > > But at scale, VMs in clouds go away. They get migrated, rebooted, turned off, > and discarded, often. Most clouds are terrible for VPS compared to VPS > hosting environments. > > I'm glad it's working for you. And I think rebuild and resize will stay and > improve to serve VPS style users in interesting ways. I'm learning now who > our users are today, and I'm confident we should make sure everyone who has > taken the time to deploy and care for OpenStack should be served by expanding > rebuild to meet their needs. > > You can all consider this my white flag. :) > > Excerpts from Tomáš Vondra's message of 2017-10-05 10:22:14 +0200: > > In our cloud, we offer the possibility to reinstall the same or another OS > > on a VPS (Virtual Private Server). Unfortunately, we couldn’t use the > > rebuild function because of the VPS‘s use of Cinder for root disk. We > > create a new instance and inject the same User Data so that the new > > instance has the same password and key as the last one. It also has the > > same name, and the same floating IP is attached. I believe it even has the > > same IPv6 through some Neutron port magic. > > > > BTW, you wouldn’t believe how often people use the Reinstall feature. > > > > Tomas from Homeatcloud > > > > > > > > From: Belmiro Moreira [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 5:34 PM > > To: Chris Friesen > > Cc: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] [nova] Should we allow passing new > > user_data during rebuild? > > > > > > > > In our cloud rebuild is the only way for a user to keep the same IP. > > Unfortunately, we don't offer floating IPs, yet. > > > > Also, we use the user_data to bootstrap some actions in new instances > > (puppet, ...). > > > > Considering all the use-cases for rebuild it would be great if the > > user_data can be updated at rebuild time. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Chris Friesen <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > On 10/03/2017 11:12 AM, Clint Byrum wrote: > > > > My personal opinion is that rebuild is an anti-pattern for cloud, and > > should be frozen and deprecated. It does nothing but complicate Nova > > and present challenges for scaling. > > > > That said, if it must stay as a feature, I don't think updating the > > user_data should be a priority. At that point, you've basically > > created an entirely new server, and you can already do that by > > creating an entirely new server. > > > > > > If you've got a whole heat stack with multiple resources, and you realize > > that you messed up one thing in the template and one of your servers has > > the wrong personality/user_data, it can be useful to be able to rebuild > > that one server without affecting anything else in the stack. That's just > > a convenience though. > > > > Chris > > > > _______________________________________________ > OpenStack-operators mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators > > > _______________________________________________ > OpenStack-operators mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators _______________________________________________ OpenStack-operators mailing list [email protected] http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
