Ha, now that's a truth :) On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 7:34 AM, Matt Jarvis <[email protected]> wrote:
> Agreed, although I've learned over the years that second guessing what > actions customers may or may not take is usually a losing battle ;) > > On 26 February 2016 at 13:55, Robert Starmer <[email protected]> wrote: > >> For a user that's gone and deleted their network services, then wouldn't >> they perhaps be savvy enough to deploy a network/subnet pair. If they >> don't want to pay for the router then this is what they'd be working >> towards (by deleting their initially provisioned service). As it stands >> today, if you have a single network available (regardless of upstream >> router), your "nova boot" process will associate the VM to that network >> automatically. >> >> For the user who is trying to do something specific, giving them an >> option (opt-out if you don't want a network), actually maps the most common >> case of user wants a VM to be able to get to the world to the default, and >> the odd (and I haven't ever seen an actual use case where I want a VM >> without a network of some nature associated to it) case of "I don't want >> any network" an option by specifically calling that out on boot. >> >> And I personally am unaware of any service provider that doesn't give you >> network access by default when you stand up a project. >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 5:06 AM, Matt Jarvis < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> As I've already said in this thread, we automatically provide an initial >>> network and router for all our customers as part of our on-boarding process >>> so in our case this problem doesn't actually exist unless customers delete >>> their initial router and network. If a customer has already deleted these >>> for some reason, my concern around an opt-out process is that we start >>> automatically creating chargeable entities without the customer >>> specifically asking for it. >>> >>> Out of interest, are there really OpenStack public clouds where the >>> cloud provider doesn't automatically provision an initial network and >>> router ? >>> >>> On 26 February 2016 at 11:36, Jeremy Stanley <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2016-02-26 11:21:47 +0000 (+0000), Matt Jarvis wrote: >>>> > From a public cloud perspective I'm not convinced that an opt-out >>>> argument >>>> > is the right way to go. A router in our context is a chargeable item, >>>> > because it has an external IP address, so automatically creating stuff >>>> > without the user specifying it is not an ideal outcome. Personally I'd >>>> > rather see an opt-in argument ie. option 1 >>>> >>>> As a user of many public clouds, some of which use Nova network, >>>> some of which use Neutron with a common flat provider network, et >>>> cetera, _I_ want them to behave consistently when I ask them to boot >>>> a node rather than needing to remember that on some subset of them I >>>> also need to perform an unholy dance to convince them I really want >>>> to have access to the servers I've created. >>>> >>>> Making it so that some public cloud providers can continue to >>>> require completely different business logic than others just to have >>>> a reachable server basically shoots any hope we have as a community >>>> for consistency and "interoperability" in the head. Cloud providers >>>> seem to think that they'll attract me with their unique market >>>> differentiating features, but I could really care less. What I want >>>> is for OpenStack to succeed by providing a seamless experience where >>>> things look as identical as possible no matter what provider or >>>> environment I use. OpenStack doesn't need to compete against itself, >>>> there is plenty enough competition out there for us already even if >>>> we band together in a unity of design and function. >>>> -- >>>> Jeremy Stanley >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OpenStack-operators mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators >>>> >>> >>> >>> DataCentred Limited registered in England and Wales no. 05611763 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OpenStack-operators mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators >>> >>> >> > > DataCentred Limited registered in England and Wales no. 05611763 >
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