Jakub, Please see below.
On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Jakub Pavlik <jakub.pav...@tcpcloud.eu> wrote: > Hello all, > > it took us 2 years of hard working to get these official. OpenStack-Salt is > now used by around 40 production deployments and it is focused very on > operation and popularity is growing. You are removing the project week after > one of top contributor announced that they will use that as part of > solution. We made a mistakes, however I do not think that is reason to > remove us. I do no think that quality of the project is measured like this. > Our PTL got ill and did not do properly his job for last 3 weeks, but this > can happen anybody. > > It is up to you. If you think that we are useless for community, then > remove us and we will have to continue outside of this community. However > growing successful use cases will not be under official openstack community, > which makes my feeling bad. Data points so far are: 1. No response during Barcelona planning for rooms 2. Lack of candidates for PTL election 3. No activity in the releases/ repository hence no entries in https://releases.openstack.org/ 4. Meetings are not so regular? http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_salt/2016/ (supposed to be weekly) 5. Is the specs repo really active? http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/openstack-salt-specs/ is the work being done elsewhere? 6. Is there an effort to add stuff to the CI jobs running on openstack infrastructure? (can't seem to find much http://codesearch.openstack.org/?q=salt&i=nope&files=zuul%2Flayout.yaml&repos=project-config) I'll stop here and switch to #openstack-salt channel to help work you all through if there is a consensus/willingness from the openstack-salt team that there's significant work to be done. If you think you are better off not on the governance, that would be your call as well. Thanks, Dims > Thanks, > > Jakub > > > On 21.9.2016 21:03, Doug Hellmann wrote: >> >> Excerpts from Filip Pytloun's message of 2016-09-21 20:36:42 +0200: >>> >>> On 2016/09/21 13:23, Doug Hellmann wrote: >>>> >>>> The idea of splitting the contributor list comes up pretty regularly >>>> and we rehash the same suggestions each time. Given that what we >>>> have now worked fine for 57 of the 59 offical teams (the Astara >>>> team knew in advance it would not have a PTL running, and Piet had >>>> some sort of technical issue submitting his candidacy for the UX >>>> team), I'm not yet convinced that we need to make large-scale changes >>>> to our community communication standard practices in support of the >>>> 2 remaining teams. >>>> >>>> That's not to say that the system we have now is perfect, but we >>>> can't realistically support multiple systems at the same time. We >>>> need everyone to use the same system, otherwise we have (even more) >>>> fragmented communication. So, we either need everyone to agree to >>>> some new system and then have people step forward to implement it, >>>> or we need to all agree to do our best to use the system we have >>>> in place now. >>> >>> I think it may work as is (with proper mail filters), but as someone >>> already >>> mentioned in this thread it would be better to have someone more >>> experienced >>> in Openstack community projects as a core team member or PTL to catch all >>> these things otherwise it may happen that inexperienced PTL/team just >>> miss >>> something like now. >> >> If the team needs help, please ask for it. We should be able to find >> someone to do a little mentoring and provide some guidance. >> >>> Still I don't think it's such a big issue to just fire project from Big >>> Tent - >>> who will benefit from that? Again someone already mentioned what will it >>> mean >>> for such team (loss of potencial developers, etc.). >>> Moreover for teams who are actively working on project as it seems that >>> both >>> OpenStackSalt and Security teams do. >> >> Signing up to be a part of the big tent is not free. Membership comes >> with expectations and obligations. Failing to meet those may be an >> indication that the team isn't ready, or that membership is not a good >> fit. >> >>> And I thought that real work on a project is our primary goal.. this >>> situation >>> is like loosing job when I left dirty coffee cup at my workspace. >> >> I hope you consider team leadership and community participation to >> be more important than your analogy implies. >> >> Doug >> >>>> Did your release liaison follow the instructions to make that happen? >>>> http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/releases/tree/README.rst >>> >>> That seems to be the reason. There was new release planned with support >>> for >>> containerized deployment which would follow that guide (as first releases >>> were >>> done during/shortly after openstack-salt move to Big Tent). >>> As mentioned above - more experienced PTL would be helpful here and we >>> are >>> currently talking with people who could fit that position. >>> >>>>>> I see no emails tagged with [salt] on the mailing list since March of >>>>>> this year, aside from this thread. Are you using a different >>>>>> communication >>>>>> channel for team coordination? You mention IRC, but how are new >>>>>> contributors >>>>>> expected to find you? >>>>> >>>>> Yes, we are using openstack-salt channel and openstack meetings over >>>>> IRC. This channel is mentioned eg. in readme here [1] and community >>>>> meetings page [2] which are on weekly basis (logs [3]). >>>>> >>>>> We also had a couple of people comming to team IRC talking to us about >>>>> project >>>>> so I believe they can find the way to contact us even without our heavy >>>>> activity at openstack-dev (which should be better as I admitted). >>>> >>>> That works great for folks in your timezones. It's less useful for >>>> anyone who isn't around at the same time as you, which is one reason >>>> our community emphasizes using email communications. Email gives >>>> you asynchronous discussions for timezone coverage, allows folks >>>> who are traveling or off work for a period to catch up on and >>>> participate in discussions later, etc. >>>> >>>>> [1] https://github.com/openstack/openstack-salt >>>>> [2] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/openstack-salt >>>>> [3] http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_salt/2016/ >>>>> >>>>>>> Of course I don't want to excuse our fault. In case it's not too >>>>>>> late, >>>>>>> we will try to be more active in mailing lists like openstack-dev and >>>>>>> not miss such important events next time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [1] http://stackalytics.com/?module=openstacksalt-group >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Filip >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 12:23 PM, Thierry Carrez >>>>>>> <thie...@openstack.org> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As announced previously[1][2], there were no PTL candidates within >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> election deadline for a number of official OpenStack project teams: >>>>>>>> Astara, UX, OpenStackSalt and Security. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In the Astara case, the current team working on it would like to >>>>>>>> abandon >>>>>>>> the project (and let it be available for any new team who wishes to >>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>> it away). A change should be proposed really soon now to go in that >>>>>>>> direction. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In the UX case, the current PTL (Piet Kruithof) very quickly >>>>>>>> reacted, >>>>>>>> explained his error and asked to be considered for the position for >>>>>>>> Ocata. The TC will officialize his nomination at the next meeting, >>>>>>>> together with the newly elected PTLs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That leaves us with OpenStackSalt and Security, where nobody reacted >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> the announcement that we are missing PTL candidates. That points to >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> real disconnect between those teams and the rest of the community. >>>>>>>> Even >>>>>>>> if you didn't have the election schedule in mind, it was pretty hard >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> miss all the PTL nominations in the email last week. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The majority of TC members present at the meeting yesterday >>>>>>>> suggested >>>>>>>> that those project teams should be removed from the Big Tent, with >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> design summit space allocation slightly reduced to match that (and >>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>> room for other not-yet-official teams). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In the case of OpenStackSalt, it's a relatively new addition, and if >>>>>>>> they get their act together they could probably be re-proposed in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> future. In the case of Security, it points to a more significant >>>>>>>> disconnect (since it's not the first time the PTL misses the >>>>>>>> nomination >>>>>>>> call). We definitely still need to care about Security (and we also >>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>> a home for the Vulnerability Management team), but I think the >>>>>>>> "Security >>>>>>>> team" acts more like a workgroup than as an official project team, >>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> evidenced by the fact that nobody in that team reacted to the lack >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> PTL nomination, or the announcement that the team missed the bus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The suggested way forward there would be to remove the "Security >>>>>>>> project >>>>>>>> team", have the Vulnerability Management Team file to be its own >>>>>>>> official project team (in the same vein as the stable maintenance >>>>>>>> team), >>>>>>>> and have Security be just a workgroup rather than a project team. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thoughts, comments ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [1] >>>>>>>> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016- >>>>>>>> September/103904.html >>>>>>>> [2] >>>>>>>> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016- >>>>>>>> September/103939.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Thierry Carrez (ttx) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) >>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: >>>>>>>> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe >>>>>>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) >>>>>>> Unsubscribe: >>>>>>> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe >>>>>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __________________________________________________________________________ >>>>>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) >>>>>> Unsubscribe: >>>>>> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe >>>>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev >>>> >>>> >>>> __________________________________________________________________________ >>>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) >>>> Unsubscribe: >>>> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe >>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev >> >> __________________________________________________________________________ >> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) >> Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe >> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > > > -- > Jakub Pavlik > CTO > > [tcp ◕ cloud] > > +420 602 177 027 > jakub.pav...@tcpcloud.eu > > tcp cloud a.s. > Thamova 16 > 186 00 Praha 8 - Karlin > Czech republic > http://tcpcloud.eu > http://opentcpcloud.org > > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev -- Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims __________________________________________________________________________ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
