Devananda van der Veen wrote:
On 06/07/2016 09:55 AM, Joshua Harlow wrote:
Joshua Harlow wrote:
Clint Byrum wrote:
Excerpts from Joshua Harlow's message of 2016-06-07 08:46:28 -0700:
Clint Byrum wrote:
Excerpts from Kris G. Lindgren's message of 2016-06-06 20:44:26 +0000:
Hi ironic folks,
As I'm trying to explore how GoDaddy can use ironic I've created
the following in an attempt to document some of my concerns, and
I'm wondering if you folks could help myself identity ongoing work
to solve these (or alternatives?)
Hi Kris. I've been using Ironic in various forms for a while, and I can
answer a few of these things.
List of concerns with ironic:
1.)Nova<-> ironic interactions are generally seem terrible?
I don't know if I'd call it terrible, but there's friction. Things that
are unchangable on hardware are just software configs in vms (like mac
addresses, overlays, etc), and things that make no sense in VMs are
pretty standard on servers (trunked vlans, bonding, etc).
One way we've gotten around it is by using Ironic standalone via
Bifrost[1]. This deploys Ironic in wide open auth mode on 127.0.0.1,
and includes playbooks to build config drives and deploy images in a
fairly rudimentary way without Nova.
I call this the "better than Cobbler" way of getting a toe into the
Ironic waters.
[1] https://github.com/openstack/bifrost
Out of curiosity, why ansible vs turning
https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/virt/ironic/driver.py
(or something like it) into a tiny-wsgi-app (pick useful name here) that
has its own REST api (that looks pretty similar to the public functions
in that driver file)?
That's an interesting idea. I think a reason Bifrost doesn't just import
nova virt drivers is that they're likely _not_ a supported public API
(despite not having _'s at the front). Also, a lot of the reason Bifrost
exists is to enable users to get the benefits of all the baremetal
abstraction work done in Ironic without having to fully embrace all of
OpenStack's core. So while you could get a little bit of the stuff from
nova (like config drive building), you'd still need to handle network
address assignment, image management, etc. etc., and pretty soon you
start having to run a tiny glance and a tiny neutron. The Bifrost way
is the opposite: I just want a tiny Ironic, and _nothing_ else.
Ya, I'm just thinking that at a certain point
You've got two statements in here, which I'm going to reply to separately:
Oops forgot to fill this out, was just thinking that at a certain point it might
be easier to figure out how to extract that API (meh, if its public or private)
The nova-core team has repeatedly stated that they do not have plans to support
the nova virt driver API as a stable or externally-consumable python API.
Changing that would affect a lot more than Ironic (eg. defcore). A change like
that is not just about what is easier for developers, but also what is better
for the community.
Right, I'm starting to come to the belief that what is better for the
community is to change this; because from what I can tell (from my view
of the world) that tying all the things to nova has really been
detrimental (to a degree) to the whole progression of the cloud as a whole.
It's an opinionated thing to say, yes I understand that, but there
becomes a point where I feel we need to re-evaluate what people really
care about from openstack (because I start to believe that treating the
whole thing as a single product, well that went out the window a long
time ago, with the creation of the big-tent by the TC, with the creation
of mesos, k8s and others by other companies not in openstack...); and
really what's left after that is a bunch of services that to survive (as
a useful set of services) must accept that there is more than just
openstack in the wider world (ie, kubernetes, mesos,
the-next-best-thing...) and if we don't start embracing those other
communities (and no that doesn't mean be an `integration engine` on-top
or around them) then we are pretty much obsoleting ourselves.
Ya, I know this is a hot (and touchy) topic, and probably other people
don't agree, that's ok... I don't mind the flames, ha (mmmm spicy).
and just have someone make an executive decision around ironic being a
stand-alone thing or not (and a capable stand-alone thing, not a
sorta-standalone-thing).
We already decided to support Ironic as a stand-alone service. So, could you
clarify what you mean when you call it a "sorta-standalone-thing"? In what ways
do you think it's *not* functional? Do you have specific recommendations on what
we can improve, based on experience using either Ironic or Bifrost?
I'll work on this list, as some folks that are trying start to try to
connect ironic (IMHO without nova, because well kubernetes is enough
like nova that there isn't a need for 2-layers of nova-like-systems at
that point) into kubernetes as a 'resource provider'. I'm sure
attempting to do that will expose a bunch of specific recommendations
soon enough.
-Devananda
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