On 14/08/15 10:14 -0500, Kyle Mestery wrote:
On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 10:00 AM, Flavio Percoco <fla...@redhat.com> wrote:

   On 14/08/15 10:42 -0400, Assaf Muller wrote:
First I'd like to say that I recognize that this discussion is
       incredibly
       personal. Brandon and Russell, please do not be offended, but I know
       that I
       probably would be if this very public thread involved myself. That
       being said,
       please know that from my perspective this is *not* personal, rather I
       see this
       as a general discussion about the precedent that we are creating here.

       Responses in-line.

       On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 9:32 AM, Kyle Mestery <mest...@mestery.com>
       wrote:

          On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 6:29 AM, Ihar Hrachyshka <
       ihrac...@redhat.com>
          wrote:
                it feels to me that leaving neutron-core group as a
       "meta-group" that
              includes everyone who makes significant positive impact in any
       of
              those repos is not optimal. 

            This is where I'd disagree. I think in general teams pay too much
       attention
          to stats, which are incredibly easy to game. Case in point, with the
          current objections people have over Brandon and Russell being
       nominated, I
          could have waited 4-6 weeks and let them amass a plethora of review
       stats,
          but what would the point of that have been?


       None what so ever. I think the point here is that if someone is
       focusing on
       another project then it's debatable if they should become a core in the
       Neutron
       project itself. Very simply put, if someone is a core in a subproject
       and is
       doing a fantastic job, but that person is not truly involved in the
       Neutron
       project itself, then that person becoming core in Neutron to me is
       dangerous.
       Before someone becomes core, I would like to be familiar with their
       expertise
       in Neutron so that I know if to trust their +2 or not on a given area
       in
       Neutron. If that person didn't really focus on Neutron then I have no
       way of
       being familiar with their expertise, thus no ability to trust them even
       if I'm
       generally a trusting person.
   I'm not really familiar with Neutron's workflow but as an outsider and
   also based on my experience from other projects, the separation of
   concerns from a review perspective is very useful. Teams that govern
   several projects are be better off giving reviewing rights to folks
   in a per-project basis rather than doing it cross-team.

   I'd go as far as saying that folks with review rights in the server
   don't necessarily need to have review rights in smaller projects. The
   reason I'm saying this is because I believe that reviewer rights is
   not a prize but a volunteer job. The moment I'm asked whether I want
   to join a reviewers team in a project, I gotta be honest with what my
   available time will allow me to do.



What you just said is what I've been trying to emphasize my entire time as PTL:
Reviewing is a duty, not a prize. The thing we're discussing here is the issue
of when to give someone +2 rights. I'm arguing in favor of a web of trust
system, which is what we have with Lieutenants. I'm also saying that I'm a
proponent of elevating folks who want to take on the duty and letting them do
that before they spend a month building up stats. This is not an opinion shared
by everyone I realize, but it's my opinion.

Like I've said in this thread, the entire system is built on trust. We as a
community need to trust more and rely on that trust. I feel as if I've spent my
PTL time trying to build that up and instill this value into the Neutron
community. The results speak for themselves at this point, but I'm proud of
what *we* as a community have built here.

Different projects follow different rules. Some projects favor stats,
others favor enthusiasm and try to build a stronger community based on
that.

I just wanted to say that I personally favor building a web of trust
rather than relying *just* on stats!

Flavio


Kyle
 

   To what I just said, I'd also add the familiarity with the code-base,
   etc.

   Just my $0.02,
   Flavio



   --
   @flaper87
   Flavio Percoco
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