> -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Walker [mailto:em...@daviey.com] > Sent: 13 January 2015 15:10 > To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Glance] IRC logging > > On 13 January 2015 at 12:32, Kuvaja, Erno <kuv...@hp.com> wrote: > > I'm heavily against the public logging to the level that I will just leave > > the > channel if that will be enabled. My point is not foul language and I do > understand that there could be some benefits out of it. Personally I think we > have enough tracked public communication means like ask.openstack.org > and the mailing lists. IRC is and has always been real time communications > with defined audience. > > > > I think the major benefits of this defined audience are: > > 1) One does not need to express themselves in a way that is for public. ( > Misunderstandings can be corrected on the fly if needed. ) There is no need > to explain to anyone reading the logs what you actually meant during the > conversation month ago. > > 2) there is level of confidentiality within that defined audience. ( > > For example someone not familiar with the processes thinks they have > > found security vulnerability and comes to the IRC-channel to ask > > second opinion. Those details are not public and that bug can still be > > raised and dealt properly. Once the discussion is logged and the logs > > are publicly available the details are publicly available as well. ) > > 3) That defined audience does not usually limit content. I have no problem > to throw my e-mail address, phone number etc. into the channel, I would not > yell them out publicly. > > > > For me personally the last point is the biggest problem, professionally the > second is major concern. I have been using IRC for so long time that I'm not > willing to take the risk I can't filter myself on my regular channels. > Meetings > are different story as there it is defined time and at least I'm on meeting > mode that time knowing it will be publicly logged. > > > > The channels are not locked so anyone can keep a client online and log it > for themselves if they feel need for it and lots of people do so. There is > just > that big barrier having it within the defined group you can see on the channel > versus public to anyone. > > > > As opposed to Cindy's original statement of not wanting to be available off- > hours, that's solved already: you can set your client to away or not respond. > It's really common on any IRC network that nick is online while user is not or > is ignoring that real time outreach by personal preference. No-one > will/should take that personally or offensive. Not having bouncer/shell to run > your client is as well personal preference, I doubt anyone can claim they > could not do it with the options available nowadays. > > > > - Erno (jokke_) Kuvaja > > > Hi, > > I think these concerns are more based around fear, than any real merit. I > would suggest that any IRC communication should be treated as public, and > therefore the idea of bouncing around personal contacts details is pretty > poor personal security. If this is required, then using private messages > would > seem to be perfectly suitable. > > A user can join any #openstack-* channel, and not necessarily be a friend of > the project. The concerns about security issues should be treated as if they > have already become public. > > It seems that Openstack currently has around 40 non-meeting channels > logged[0] and contrasting with the Ubuntu project, there are some 350 public > logged channels[1] - with the logs going back to 2004. This has caused little > issue over the years. > > It would seem logical to introduce project-wide irc logging IMO. I > *have* found it useful to search through archives of projects, and find it > frustrating when this data is not available. > > I really struggle with the idea that contributors of a developer channel do > not > consider themselves to be talking in a public forum, which to me - is the same > as being logged. Without this mindset, the channel (and project?) merely > becomes a cabal developers area. > > [0] http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/ > [1] http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/01/01/ > > -- > Kind Regards, > Dave Walker
I do not have a problem to tell my phone number to someone at my local which is packed with people I do not know and they might hear it, I would have problem with my local if they would start recording all discussions in their premises and posting those publicly in the internet. I don't have even problem X people recording their visits there as long as it stays in their private collection, again same thing I would have problem them putting those records out public and I would try to ensure not being in their vicinity. Why should I/we/one treat IRC differently to any other public venue of discussion? - Erno > > __________________________________________________________ > ________________ > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > Unsubscribe: OpenStack-dev- > requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __________________________________________________________________________ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
