I fully support merging the lists proposed, as well as the interop-wg list that Chris Hodge proposed. I look forward to the day when cross posting is no longer a necessary evil.
-Julia On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 10:04 AM Jeremy Stanley <fu...@yuggoth.org> wrote: > > The openstack, openstack-dev, openstack-sigs and openstack-operators > mailing lists on lists.openstack.org see an increasing amount of > cross-posting and thread fragmentation as conversants attempt to > reach various corners of our community with topics of interest to > one or more (and sometimes all) of those overlapping groups of > subscribers. For some time we've been discussing and trying ways to > bring our developers, distributors, operators and end users together > into a less isolated, more cohesive community. An option which keeps > coming up is to combine these different but overlapping mailing > lists into one single discussion list. As we covered[1] in Vancouver > at the last Forum there are a lot of potential up-sides: > > 1. People with questions are no longer asking them in a different > place than many of the people who have the answers to those > questions (the "not for usage questions" in the openstack-dev ML > title only serves to drive the wedge between developers and users > deeper). > > 2. The openstack-sigs mailing list hasn't seem much uptake (an order > of magnitude fewer subscribers and posts) compared to the other > three lists, yet it was intended to bridge the communication gap > between them; combining those lists would have been a better > solution to the problem than adding yet another turned out to be. > > 3. At least one out of every ten messages to any of these lists is > cross-posted to one or more of the others, because we have topics > that span across these divided groups yet nobody is quite sure which > one is the best venue for them; combining would eliminate the > fragmented/duplicative/divergent discussion which results from > participants following up on the different subsets of lists to which > they're subscribed, > > 4. Half of the people who are actively posting to at least one of > the four lists subscribe to two or more, and a quarter to three if > not all four; they would no longer be receiving multiple copies of > the various cross-posts if these lists were combined. > > The proposal is simple: create a new openstack-discuss mailing list > to cover all the above sorts of discussion and stop using the other > four. As the OpenStack ecosystem continues to mature and its > software and services stabilize, the nature of our discourse is > changing (becoming increasingly focused with fewer heated debates, > distilling to a more manageable volume), so this option is looking > much more attractive than in the past. That's not to say it's quiet > (we're looking at roughly 40 messages a day across them on average, > after deduplicating the cross-posts), but we've grown accustomed to > tagging the subjects of these messages to make it easier for other > participants to quickly filter topics which are relevant to them and > so would want a good set of guidelines on how to do so for the > combined list (a suggested set is already being brainstormed[2]). > None of this is set in stone of course, and I expect a lot of > continued discussion across these lists (oh, the irony) while we try > to settle on a plan, so definitely please follow up with your > questions, concerns, ideas, et cetera. > > As an aside, some of you have probably also seen me talking about > experiments I've been doing with Mailman 3... I'm hoping new > features in its Hyperkitty and Postorius WebUIs make some of this > easier or more accessible to casual participants (particularly in > light of the combined list scenario), but none of the plan above > hinges on MM3 and should be entirely doable with the MM2 version > we're currently using. > > Also, in case you were wondering, no the irony of cross-posting this > message to four mailing lists is not lost on me. ;) > > [1] https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-ops-devs-one-community > [2] https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/common-openstack-ml-topics > -- > Jeremy Stanley > __________________________________________________________________________ > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __________________________________________________________________________ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
