On 11/15/2013 02:33 PM, Salvatore Orlando wrote:
Apologies for forking the thread.
Not at all. You do want you need to do.
I think this is probably the last post with some content which might
be useful for a discussion which does not involve fashion police.
I'm all for content for useful discussion.
On another note, I've seen my name is in the list of the required
attendees. To be fair and honest I'm not any more required than any
other member of the neutron core team.
When I asked Mark McClain who needed to be there, he told me yourself,
Sean Dague and Matt Trenish. I was going on the best information I had
at the time. I also had to select a time and location with the 4 of you
in two different rooms in less than 2 hours.
I hope all the Neutron cores attend. I also agree with the sentiment. I
picture a circle, every contributor an equal distance from the same focus.
I've also added some comments inline.
On 15 November 2013 17:16, Anita Kuno <ante...@anteaya.info
<mailto:ante...@anteaya.info>> wrote:
On 11/15/2013 11:01 AM, Kyle Mestery (kmestery) wrote:
On Nov 15, 2013, at 9:36 AM, Russell Bryant
<rbry...@redhat.com <mailto:rbry...@redhat.com>> wrote:
On 11/13/2013 11:10 AM, Anita Kuno wrote:
Neutron Tempest code sprint
In the second week of January in Montreal, Quebec,
Canadathere will be a
Neutron Tempest code sprint to improve the status of
Neutron tests in
Tempest and to add new tests.
First off, I think anything regarding putting more effort
into this is
great. However, I *beg* the Neutron team not to wait
until this week to
make significant progress.
Well I have an item on the Neutron team meeting for next week:
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings#Neutron_Tempest_.28anteaya.29
I would enjoy having your presence there and hope you join in on
the discussion, Russell.
This is completely true, and I expect that the ideal goal would be
that by the day that the sprint comes, parallel testing with tenant
isolation and coverage gaps are covered.
Do we have any blueprints or etherpads giving some guidance on
implementing this expectation?
I do like the phrase "parallel testing", music to my ears.
Regarding specifically the sprint, I reckon it is an event with lot of
potential for building a community and solving actual problems, but
allow me to say that, from my little experience, developer
productivity often don't add up. By this I mean that if you put 10
developers in a room, and each of them has a productivity of one, the
outcome is likely to be less than 10.
Do you feel there is a better way to meet the goals the sprint is
designed to meet?
I am sure that Neutron devs will work with Tempest devs, with the help
of Nova devs (we need that too as one of main pain points is the
neutronv2 implementation of nova's network api) to reach to a stage
where we are comfortable with gate stability and coverage by the
beginning of this Montreal sprint.
I do hope so. Part of what I hope comes out of this is a through
understanding of what tempest is and how to write tempest tests, since
there seems to be a need for some teaching on these points within
neutron. If there is an expectation that the gate is stable and covered
by the beginning of the sprint, perhaps we need to look at ensuring
tempest information is disseminated through neutron prior to the sprint.
To be clear, IMO, this is already painfully late. It's
one of the
largest items blocking deprecation of nova-network and
moving forward
with Neutron. This spring is just a couple weeks before
icehouse-2.
Come i2, mid-cycle, we're going to have make a call on
whether or not
nova-network deprecation seems likely. If not, we really
can't wait
around and I will probably propose un-freezing nova-network.
As also stated during the design summit, this goes beyond parity,
stability, and migration. It is a question that should probably be
asked to users rather than developers, but is probably off-topic in
this thread.
I think we need to continue to discuss what we should work on at the
code sprint and prior to it. If you and Russell have different opinions
on what should be accomplished, I think now is the time to have that
discussion.
Yes, the surprising thing for me is this is the feeling within the
rest of the OpenStack community and seems to be not acknowledged
in anyway so far in my journeys within Neutron. Thank you for
stating this so clearly, Russell. I hope people are able to hear
you when you say it.
I personally do not feel this way; even if this is just my personal
opinion.
I am so very glad to hear that. And your personal opinion counts.
We did a bad job in fixing test coverage during Havana; the PTL has
acknowledged it, and is taking the necessary steps to put things
right. I think there has been a good response from the community, in
terms of people willing to volunteer, and in terms of support for the
plan of requiring verifiability for all plugins.
I agree. The plan for 3rd party testing is clearly written with good
goals and a plan for enforcement of same. I think it was very heartening
to see that posted.
It was actually for this reason that I decided to do what I am
doing, to my best ability to do it. Others are prepared to
deprecate Neutron now and I needed to demonstrate to myself that I
did everything I could to address the situation before I voiced my
opinion.
So we shall see what comes of it.
The event will be vendor neutral. We will talk to each
other based on
who we are and our interests, not based on who signs
our paycheque. If
folks arrive with logoed shirts (I don't know which
logos are work logos
and which aren't, so I will request no logos please) I
will issue you a
white T-shirt to wear. We need to work collaboratively
to effectlvely
make progress during the code sprint.
I'm all for promoting a culture of individuals and vendor
neutrality.
However, I think this requirement is bizarre and
unnecessary. From a
practical standpoint, many people (myself included) get a
ton of shirts
at conferences, so a lot of my clothes have tech company
logos. If you
actually get people to show up to an event dedicated to
working on
testing, who cares what shirt they have on?
Actually symbols are very important and carry subtle messages that
the unconcious part of the brain interprets but may not push to
conciousness.
http://uanews.org/story/ua-study-your-brain-sees-things-you-don-t
Logos are powerful for a reason, and when I talk to you, Russell,
I appreciate being able to look at you and hear you without a logo
creating interference with my communication with you.
"I will issue you a white T-shirt"?! Are you serious?
Yes.
Someone at the summit choose not to wear footwear at
the event. If you
want to come to the code sprint please plan on wearing
appropriate
footwear in the public areas at the code sprint. For
two reasons:
1. It will be cold.
2. The event is meant to facilitate mutual respect
between us to
increase communication, both at the event and
afterwards. I feel wearing
appropriate footwear supports this goal.
It's Winter in Canada... I'd be quite surprised if someone
went without
shoes.
I was surprised someone showed up in public areas at the summit
without them.
I love the idea, but this stuff is just a big turn-off.
That is a shame. It would be wonderful if you could attend. But
you are the only one who can decide and I respect your opinion.
Huge +1 from me as well. The sprint and Tempest work is great, the
clothing requirements are going to make people not take this
seriously.
I feel these were not necessary.
I wish that were so. I have witnessed nothing in my time in the
Neutron design summit sessions or in the IRC channel to indicate
they aren't.
Funny this is such a big pain point.
Thanks for weighing in, I do hope to keep the conversation going.
Thanks,
Anita.
Regards,
Salvatore
PS: Can I wear my favourite football club shirt?
Since we have agreed that we need to focus on what is good for the
future of Neutron [0] and focusing on clothing is secondary to that, you
can wear what you like.
Thanks Salvatore,
Anita.
[0]
http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-November/019403.html
_______________________________________________
OpenStack-dev mailing list
OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org
<mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
_______________________________________________
OpenStack-dev mailing list
OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org
<mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
_______________________________________________
OpenStack-dev mailing list
OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
_______________________________________________
OpenStack-dev mailing list
OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
