If your client application supports that, it could be done. but no standard compliant application allows that to my knowledge.
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Yin, Ben 1. (NSN - CN/Cheng Du)<ben.1....@nsn.com> wrote: > Hi Serge, > > Maybe we can put the root ca into the verification chain if I can prove the > verfiy certificate using only sub ca is impossible. But before that, do you > know if it's possible to verfiy certificate without root ca? Thanks. > > > Br > > Ben > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-openssl-us...@openssl.org > [mailto:owner-openssl-us...@openssl.org] On Behalf Of ext Serge Fonville > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:28 AM > To: openssl-users@openssl.org > Subject: Re: Verify certificate using subordinate ca > > How do you think compromising a CA would occur, because a CA could > only becom compromised when someone leaks the key for that specific CA > And if it happens once, it will likely happen twice. And I hope in > your best interest, you are not distributing keys to terminals. > > Also, if you need to copy a file to 1000^2 terminals, use a script. > I assume you have a list of all these terminals (otherwise you have a > serious problem) > > I assume you are using server certificates and client certificates. > with these there corresponds a CRL, this crl can be automatically used > by any clientapplication that uses a certificate issued by any CA > > Bacically, are you distributing keys to terminals? > > Regards, > > Serge Fonville > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Yin, Ben 1. (NSN - CN/Cheng > Du)<ben.1....@nsn.com> wrote: >> OK, regarding the CA deploy, such as, we have a one root ca and 1000 sub ca >> signed by root ca. and each sub ca used as ca by 1000 terminals.so the total >> network size is 1000*1000. All our ca, including root ca and sub ca, was >> stored offline. I need copy sub ca to terminal it was used. So if one of sub >> ca was compromised, what I need to do is sign a new sub ca using root ca and >> copy it to 1000 terminal where sub ca has been compromised. And if root ca >> was compromised, I need to re-deploy CA on 1000*1000 terminal mannuly. That >> is why I want to keep root ca out of the chain. And only using sub ca and >> certificate to do the verification. Dose it possible? It seems that openssl >> always try to find the issuer of sub ca during tht chain verification >> because it wasn't self signed root ca. >> >> >> Br >> >> Ben >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-openssl-us...@openssl.org >> [mailto:owner-openssl-us...@openssl.org] On Behalf Of ext Serge Fonville >> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 5:14 PM >> To: openssl-users@openssl.org >> Subject: Re: Verify certificate using subordinate ca >> >> I don't see your problem honestly. Figuring out a private key is close >> to impossible. >> And stealing it, well, that is more related to security itself than to >> the actual key being secure or not. >> >> >From what I understand, a chain works somewhat like this >> >> you >> --peter >> ----john >> ------carl >> >> You talk to peter, peter is trusted by john, john is trusted by carl, >> you trust carl >> Say if you were to obsolete carl in this chain (by trusting john) john >> would then become the root >> If this is the case, why would you want to have carl at all? >> >> Thawte, verisign etc work the same way >> >> Also, why is distributing a CA cert so difficult? >> What is your environment? >> What applications are using the certs? >> And how do they verify the chain? >> >> Again, without the key for each CA it can't be compromised >> Has this actually happened or is this someone eing paranoid? >> >> Who has created the chain? >> >> I'm still not clear of the purpose of the root ca if it should not >> need to be trusted >> >> Regards, >> >> Serge Fonville >> >> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Yin, Ben 1. (NSN - CN/Cheng >> Du)<ben.1....@nsn.com> wrote: >>> No. In our enviroment. The root CA private key is isolated and absolutly >>> safe. Regarding the compromised, I means CA can't be trusted any more, Such >>> as the private key was stolen some how or someone find a way to figure out >>> private key for one CA. it easy to set up new sub ca in one domain if those >>> compromise happened on sub ca. but if it happened on root ca, it's quite >>> hard to fix the our whole network. Thanks. >>> >>> >>> Br >>> >>> Ben >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-openssl-us...@openssl.org >>> [mailto:owner-openssl-us...@openssl.org] On Behalf Of ext Serge Fonville >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 4:31 PM >>> To: openssl-users@openssl.org >>> Subject: Re: Verify certificate using subordinate ca >>> >>> Based on what you state. >>> There is no purpose for the root CA. >>> >>> What do you mean by compromised. >>> If you publish a CA certificate to clients, it does not include the >>> key. (normally) >>> So the only thing a client can do is use it in the session at best. >>> There is NO way a client can use a CA certificate to sign anything >>> without the corresponding key. >>> >>> I have a chain on my website, and noone (except me, because I can >>> access the server) is able to sign anything. Since the CAs are only >>> used for signing and verifying and not for encrypting, if the CA keys >>> are stored safely, there is no 'compromise' >>> >>> Are you distributing the keys as well? >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Serge Fonville >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Yin, Ben 1. (NSN - CN/Cheng >>> Du)<ben.1....@nsn.com> wrote: >>>> I only want to verfiy the signature (I mean the procedure when sub ca >>>> sign the certiticate). So I guess sub ca and certification should has >>>> enough info to do it because we needn't root ca when we use sub ca to >>>> sign the certificate. Is there a way for this requirement? Thanks. >>>> >>>> >>>> Br >>>> >>>> Ben >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: owner-openssl-us...@openssl.org >>>> [mailto:owner-openssl-us...@openssl.org] On Behalf Of ext Yin, Ben 1. >>>> (NSN - CN/Cheng Du) >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 3:06 PM >>>> To: openssl-users@openssl.org >>>> Subject: RE: Verify certificate using subordinate ca >>>> >>>> Hi Serge, >>>> >>>> My intention is to keep my root ca out of compromise. We want to use sub >>>> ca to splite the domain in the our whole network. Then, we can easy to >>>> re-sign a new sub ca and publish it if we find one domain sub ca was >>>> compromised. And if we expose the the root ca to public ,it hard to >>>> maintain if root ca was cracked. >>>> >>>> And as you said, "create a new chain and let sub ca as root", I don't >>>> know how to do it. In my testing, I set verify depth to 1. I guess it >>>> will make chain only include certificate and sub ca. the testing show >>>> that the openssl still try to find the issuer of sub ca, and so the >>>> verification was failed. >>>> >>>> Here is the output: >>>> >>>> -with certificate at depth: 1 >>>> issuer = /C=fi/O=WCDMA/CN=NSN Tre WCDMA Root CA >>>> subject = /C=fi/O=WCDMA/CN=NSN Tre WCDMA Sub1 CA >>>> err 20:unable to get local issuer certificate >>>> -with certificate at depth: 1 >>>> issuer = /C=fi/O=WCDMA/CN=NSN Tre WCDMA Root CA >>>> subject = /C=fi/O=WCDMA/CN=NSN Tre WCDMA Sub1 CA >>>> err 27:certificate not trusted >>>> -with certificate at depth: 0 >>>> issuer = /C=fi/O=WCDMA/CN=NSN Tre WCDMA Sub1 CA >>>> subject = /C=FI/ST=Tampere/L=Tampere/O=NSN/CN=lab. >>>> err 27:certificate not trusted >>>> >>>> And FYI. Here is the complete chain verfication output. >>>> >>>> -with certificate at depth: 2 >>>> issuer = /C=fi/O=WCDMA/CN=NSN Tre WCDMA Root CA >>>> subject = /C=fi/O=WCDMA/CN=NSN Tre WCDMA Root CA >>>> err 0:ok >>>> -with certificate at depth: 1 >>>> issuer = /C=fi/O=WCDMA/CN=NSN Tre WCDMA Root CA >>>> subject = /C=fi/O=WCDMA/CN=NSN Tre WCDMA Sub1 CA >>>> err 0:ok >>>> -with certificate at depth: 0 >>>> issuer = /C=fi/O=WCDMA/CN=NSN Tre WCDMA Sub1 CA >>>> subject = /C=FI/ST=Tampere/L=Tampere/O=NSN/CN=lab. >>>> err 0:ok >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> Br >>>> >>>> Ben >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: owner-openssl-us...@openssl.org >>>> [mailto:owner-openssl-us...@openssl.org] On Behalf Of ext Serge Fonville >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 2:14 PM >>>> To: openssl-users@openssl.org >>>> Subject: Re: Verify certificate using subordinate ca >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Hmm... >>>> >>>> I've had the same issue. >>>> Basically it came down to "how do you know if the sub is reliable if >>>> you do not know whether to trust the root?" >>>> If you do not wish to have the root as part of the chain, create a new >>>> chain where the sub is the root >>>> What is the reason you do not want to use the root in the chain check, >>>> but it should be part of the chain? >>>> >>>> HTH >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Serge Fonville >>>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Yin, Ben 1. (NSN - CN/Cheng >>>> Du)<ben.1....@nsn.com> wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> It there a way to verify certificate with out root ca? I have 4 >>>> certificate: >>>>> rootca.pem is the root ca (self signed). subca.pem was signed by >>>> rootca.pem. >>>>> cert1.pem & cert2.pem was signed by subca.pem. I was supposed to >>>> configure >>>>> the client and server using subca.pem as ca, and cert1.pem & cert2.pem >>>> as >>>>> certificate. It seem that openssl still try to find rootca.pem to >>>> verfiy >>>>> subca.pem when handshake. But I don't what root.pem can bo accessed >>>> for >>>>> keeping it safe. So It there a way to verify certificate with out root >>>> ca, >>>>> only using sub ca and certificate signed by sub ca? Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> Br >>>>> >>>>> Ben >>>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>>> OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org >>>> User Support Mailing List openssl-us...@openssl.org >>>> Automated List Manager majord...@openssl.org >>>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>>> OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org >>>> User Support Mailing List openssl-us...@openssl.org >>>> Automated List Manager majord...@openssl.org >>>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>>> OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org >>>> User Support Mailing List openssl-us...@openssl.org >>>> Automated List Manager majord...@openssl.org >>>> >>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>> OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org >>> User Support Mailing List openssl-us...@openssl.org >>> Automated List Manager majord...@openssl.org >>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>> OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org >>> User Support Mailing List openssl-us...@openssl.org >>> Automated List Manager majord...@openssl.org >>> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org >> User Support Mailing List openssl-us...@openssl.org >> Automated List Manager majord...@openssl.org >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org >> User Support Mailing List openssl-us...@openssl.org >> Automated List Manager majord...@openssl.org >> > ______________________________________________________________________ > OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org > User Support Mailing List openssl-us...@openssl.org > Automated List Manager majord...@openssl.org > ______________________________________________________________________ > OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org > User Support Mailing List openssl-us...@openssl.org > Automated List Manager majord...@openssl.org > ______________________________________________________________________ OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org User Support Mailing List openssl-users@openssl.org Automated List Manager majord...@openssl.org
